[EE] RS232 -> TCPIP -> RS232

[Joe McCauley]

I have some radio receivers which output a data stream at 115K Baud (RS232). I need to locate 3 of them at the end of ~50m of cable. I was doing this by converting to RS422, driving an RS422 cable (expensive) and reconverting to RS232 at the other end. Worked fine & gave me the bidirectional data transfer I needed.

Our layouts have changed which means I now need to run 3 longer RS422 cables, which means new cable for all receivers. I'd like to avoid that if at all possible and was wondering if a pair of these would work using a single CAT6 shielded cable rather than 3 RS422 shielded twisted pair:

https://www.cablematic.ie/ref/RS43?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89DK6pG63QIVzuR3Ch0UAQ9iEAQYASABEgIqfvD_BwE

The data from PC -> radios, while at 115kB, is just setup stuff. Send a few commands once & the radio dumps data at 115kB continuously to the PC. In the last incarnation of this system, I was using 1 PC to control 3 radios and 2 antenna mounts, so that PC & link combination was fine. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used these before, in particular with multiple high speed RS232 data paths.

Thanks,

Joe
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[AB Pearce - UKRI STFC]

Why not just use cat6 for RS422? Does it really need to be shielded?



-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of Joe McCauley
Sent: 14 September 2018 16:47
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: [EE] RS232 -> TCPIP -> RS232

I have some radio receivers which output a data stream at 115K Baud (RS232). I need to locate 3 of them at the end of ~50m of cable. I was doing this by converting to RS422, driving an RS422 cable (expensive) and reconverting to RS232 at the other end. Worked fine & gave me the bidirectional data transfer I needed.

Our layouts have changed which means I now need to run 3 longer RS422 cables, which means new cable for all receivers. I'd like to avoid that if at all possible and was wondering if a pair of these would work using a single CAT6 shielded cable rather than 3 RS422 shielded twisted pair:

https://www.cablematic.ie/ref/RS43?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89DK6pG63QIVzuR3Ch0UAQ9iEAQYASABEgIqfvD_BwE

The data from PC -> radios, while at 115kB, is just setup stuff. Send a few commands once & the radio dumps data at 115kB continuously to the PC. In the last incarnation of this system, I was using 1 PC to control 3 radios and 2 antenna mounts, so that PC & link combination was fine. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used these before, in particular with multiple high speed RS232 data paths.

Thanks,

Joe
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[Clint Jay]

Joe, if you’re looking for a commercial solution then there are plenty of
terminal server boxes that'll do what you need, the one you linked looks
suitable at a quick glance.

Perle, Digi, Lantronix and a multitude of others also sell them and have
been for quite some time so they're a solved problem, they appear on eBay
often as most people have no idea what they do.
Lantronix example (one sat on my desk)
https://www.lantronix.com/products/uds1100-uds1100-poe/

Perle
https://www.perle.com/products/terminal-server.shtml?utm_medium=301&utm_source=direct&utm_campaign=/products/terminal-servers.shtml
etc.

If you want to roll your own then there are plenty of examples for the
ESP32 and various other cheap but powerful micro boards.
One example (not tried it myself)
https://github.com/AlphaLima/ESP32-Serial-Bridge


On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 at 17:57, AB Pearce - UKRI STFC <
***@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:

> Why not just use cat6 for RS422? Does it really need to be shielded?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of Joe
> McCauley
> Sent: 14 September 2018 16:47
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> Subject: [EE] RS232 -> TCPIP -> RS232
>
> I have some radio receivers which output a data stream at 115K Baud
> (RS232). I need to locate 3 of them at the end of ~50m of cable. I was
> doing this by converting to RS422, driving an RS422 cable (expensive) and
> reconverting to RS232 at the other end. Worked fine & gave me the
> bidirectional data transfer I needed.
>
> Our layouts have changed which means I now need to run 3 longer RS422
> cables, which means new cable for all receivers. I'd like to avoid that if
> at all possible and was wondering if a pair of these would work using a
> single CAT6 shielded cable rather than 3 RS422 shielded twisted pair:
>
>
> https://www.cablematic.ie/ref/RS43?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89DK6pG63QIVzuR3Ch0UAQ9iEAQYASABEgIqfvD_BwE
>
> The data from PC -> radios, while at 115kB, is just setup stuff. Send a
> few commands once & the radio dumps data at 115kB continuously to the PC.
> In the last incarnation of this system, I was using 1 PC to control 3
> radios and 2 antenna mounts, so that PC & link combination was fine. I'd be
> interested to hear if anyone has used these before, in particular with
> multiple high speed RS232 data paths.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
> --
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>
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http

[Joe McCauley]

Clint,

The Pearle one looks interesting, I've asked for a quote. I like the ESP32 project, but can't use it here as this is in a radio astronomy observatory. While we currently don't observe in the S band, who knows what we'll be doing next year....

Thanks,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of Clint Jay
Sent: Friday 14 September 2018 18:08
To: ***@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [EE] RS232 -> TCPIP -> RS232

Joe, if you’re looking for a commercial solution then there are plenty of terminal server boxes that'll do what you need, the one you linked looks suitable at a quick glance.

Perle, Digi, Lantronix and a multitude of others also sell them and have been for quite some time so they're a solved problem, they appear on eBay often as most people have no idea what they do.
Lantronix example (one sat on my desk)
https://www.lantronix.com/products/uds1100-uds1100-poe/

Perle
https://www.perle.com/products/terminal-server.shtml?utm_medium=301&utm_source=direct&utm_campaign=/products/terminal-servers.shtml
etc.

If you want to roll your own then there are plenty of examples for the
ESP32 and various other cheap but powerful micro boards.
One example (not tried it myself)
https://github.com/AlphaLima/ESP32-Serial-Bridge


On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 at 17:57, AB Pearce - UKRI STFC < ***@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:

> Why not just use cat6 for RS422? Does it really need to be shielded?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of
> Joe McCauley
> Sent: 14 September 2018 16:47
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> Subject: [EE] RS232 -> TCPIP -> RS232
>
> I have some radio receivers which output a data stream at 115K Baud
> (RS232). I need to locate 3 of them at the end of ~50m of cable. I was
> doing this by converting to RS422, driving an RS422 cable (expensive)
> and reconverting to RS232 at the other end. Worked fine & gave me the
> bidirectional data transfer I needed.
>
> Our layouts have changed which means I now need to run 3 longer RS422
> cables, which means new cable for all receivers. I'd like to avoid
> that if at all possible and was wondering if a pair of these would
> work using a single CAT6 shielded cable rather than 3 RS422 shielded twisted pair:
>
>
> https://www.cablematic.ie/ref/RS43?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89DK6pG63QIVzuR3C
> h0UAQ9iEAQYASABEgIqfvD_BwE
>
> The data from PC -> radios, while at 115kB, is just setup stuff. Send
> a few commands once & the radio dumps data at 115kB continuously to the PC.
> In the last incarnation of this system, I was using 1 PC to control 3
> radios and 2 antenna mounts, so that PC & link combination was fine.
> I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used these before, in
> particular with multiple high speed RS232 data paths.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
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[Jean-Paul Louis]

You can get inexpensive RS232 to optical fiber with range up to two miles.

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:26 AM Joe McCauley <***@tcd.ie> wrote:

> Clint,
>
> The Pearle one looks interesting, I've asked for a quote. I like the ESP32
> project, but can't use it here as this is in a radio astronomy observatory.
> While we currently don't observe in the S band, who knows what we'll be
> doing next year....
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of
> Clint Jay
> Sent: Friday 14 September 2018 18:08
> To: ***@mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [EE] RS232 -> TCPIP -> RS232
>
> Joe, if you’re looking for a commercial solution then there are plenty of
> terminal server boxes that'll do what you need, the one you linked looks
> suitable at a quick glance.
>
> Perle, Digi, Lantronix and a multitude of others also sell them and have
> been for quite some time so they're a solved problem, they appear on eBay
> often as most people have no idea what they do.
> Lantronix example (one sat on my desk)
> https://www.lantronix.com/products/uds1100-uds1100-poe/
>
> Perle
>
> https://www.perle.com/products/terminal-server.shtml?utm_medium=301&utm_source=direct&utm_campaign=/products/terminal-servers.shtml
> etc.
>
> If you want to roll your own then there are plenty of examples for the
> ESP32 and various other cheap but powerful micro boards.
> One example (not tried it myself)
> https://github.com/AlphaLima/ESP32-Serial-Bridge
>
>
> On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 at 17:57, AB Pearce - UKRI STFC <
> ***@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > Why not just use cat6 for RS422? Does it really need to be shielded?
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of
> > Joe McCauley
> > Sent: 14 September 2018 16:47
> > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> > Subject: [EE] RS232 -> TCPIP -> RS232
> >
> > I have some radio receivers which output a data stream at 115K Baud
> > (RS232). I need to locate 3 of them at the end of ~50m of cable. I was
> > doing this by converting to RS422, driving an RS422 cable (expensive)
> > and reconverting to RS232 at the other end. Worked fine & gave me the
> > bidirectional data transfer I needed.
> >
> > Our layouts have changed which means I now need to run 3 longer RS422
> > cables, which means new cable for all receivers. I'd like to avoid
> > that if at all possible and was wondering if a pair of these would
> > work using a single CAT6 shielded cable rather than 3 RS422 shielded
> twisted pair:
> >
> >
> > https://www.cablematic.ie/ref/RS43?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89DK6pG63QIVzuR3C
> > h0UAQ9iEAQYASABEgIqfvD_BwE
> >
> > The data from PC -> radios, while at 115kB, is just setup stuff. Send
> > a few commands once & the radio dumps data at 115kB continuously to the
> PC.
> > In the last incarnation of this system, I was using 1 PC to control 3
> > radios and 2 antenna mounts, so that PC & link combination was fine.
> > I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used these before, in
> > particular with multiple high speed RS232 data paths.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Joe
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
> > --
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> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
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[Denny Esterline]

> You can get inexpensive RS232 to optical fiber with range up to two miles.
>


Hmmm... It's been near twenty years ago, but I've run RS-232 on copper
over two miles. Granted at a lower baud rate and with actual line drivers
that were operating near +-25v.
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[Joe McCauley]

Well I'm stuck with the baud rate. The optical fibre is OK for point to point, but I was hoping for multiple ports from the same cat6 cable.


Joe

________________________________
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> on behalf of Denny Esterline <***@gmail.com>
Sent: 17 September 2018 18:26:25
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [EE] RS232 -> TCPIP -> RS232

> You can get inexpensive RS232 to optical fiber with range up to two miles.
>


Hmmm... It's been near twenty years ago, but I've run RS-232 on copper
over two miles. Granted at a lower baud rate and with actual line drivers
that were operating near +-25v.
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[RussellMc]

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 at 05:27, Denny Esterline <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hmmm... It's been near twenty years ago, but I've run RS-232 on copper
> over two miles. Granted at a lower baud rate and with actual line drivers
> that were operating near +-25v.
>

Info only:

Long long long long ago (probably almost 40 years) I trialled RS232 at 200
(!) baud on copper.
I now do not recall levels used but it was either 0/+5V or standard RS232
+/- 12V.

Range seemed to be "as many miles as you wanted".
This was using telephone cable pairs which were brought into a building
from a large number of telephone exchanges scattered around the city.
I could daisy chain several exchange links if desired.
(Someone else had set the arrangement up for other purposes and I made use
of it). It seemed that at 200 baud something akin to "wet string" would
suffice.

I don't know what effect this may have had on telephone "traffic" in the
cables. I assume this was thought of at the time but maybe not. It was only
done as a short trial.


Russell
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[Denny Esterline]

Mine was on "dry pair" leased line from the phone company over the same
bundle that served
telephone to the buildings. Phone company was well aware as it was part of
a specifically
negotiated contract. Several hundred dollars per month at the time if I
recall.

I think it was 19200 baud, but... fuzzy memory. I do recall that it was a
"it just works" situation
I don't recall having any downtime or communication difficulties with that
specific link.


On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 1:28 PM RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 at 05:27, Denny Esterline <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hmmm... It's been near twenty years ago, but I've run RS-232 on copper
> > over two miles. Granted at a lower baud rate and with actual line drivers
> > that were operating near +-25v.
> >
>
> Info only:
>
> Long long long long ago (probably almost 40 years) I trialled RS232 at 200
> (!) baud on copper.
> I now do not recall levels used but it was either 0/+5V or standard RS232
> +/- 12V.
>
> Range seemed to be "as many miles as you wanted".
> This was using telephone cable pairs which were brought into a building
> from a large number of telephone exchanges scattered around the city.
> I could daisy chain several exchange links if desired.
> (Someone else had set the arrangement up for other purposes and I made use
> of it). It seemed that at 200 baud something akin to "wet string" would
> suffice.
>
> I don't know what effect this may have had on telephone "traffic" in the
> cables. I assume this was thought of at the time but maybe not. It was only
> done as a short trial.
>
>
> Russell
> --
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[Dwayne Reid]

Hi there, Joe.

I have been using simple cat-5 cable for much of my RS-422 data
communications. You get two separate RS-422 streams (each stream
with its own TX & RX pairs) in a single cat-5 cable.

I treat cat-5 cable as if it is simply four pairs of very high
quality twisted-pair cable. The fact that all four pairs are inside
a single jacket is simply irrelevant most of the time.

I use the cable for both RS-422 / RS-485 communications and balanced
audio at line level (+4dBu). Crosstalk between pairs is simply not
audible when using it for audio. I haven't had any data corruption
issues either.

dwayne


At 09:46 AM 9/14/2018, Joe McCauley wrote:
>I have some radio receivers which output a data stream at 115K Baud
>(RS232). I need to locate 3 of them at the end of ~50m of cable. I
>was doing this by converting to RS422, driving an RS422 cable
>(expensive) and reconverting to RS232 at the other end. Worked fine
>& gave me the bidirectional data transfer I needed.
>
>Our layouts have changed which means I now need to run 3 longer
>RS422 cables, which means new cable for all receivers. I'd like to
>avoid that if at all possible and was wondering if a pair of these
>would work using a single CAT6 shielded cable rather than 3 RS422
>shielded twisted pair:
>
>https://www.cablematic.ie/ref/RS43?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89DK6pG63QIVzuR3Ch0UAQ9iEAQYASABEgIqfvD_BwE
>
>The data from PC -> radios, while at 115kB, is just setup stuff.
>Send a few commands once & the radio dumps data at 115kB
>continuously to the PC. In the last incarnation of this system, I
>was using 1 PC to control 3 radios and 2 antenna mounts, so that PC
>& link combination was fine. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has
>used these before, in particular with multiple high speed RS232 data paths.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Joe


--
Dwayne Reid <***@planet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
780-489-3199 voice 780-487-6397 fax [phone] Toll Free
www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

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[Joe McCauley]

I was concerned about crosstalk, particularly at the high speeds. How fast did you run it? The serial data out of these receivers has no error checking whatever, so any corruption would be a problem.

Thanks,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of Dwayne Reid
Sent: Friday 14 September 2018 18:05
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [EE] RS232 -> TCPIP -> RS232

Hi there, Joe.

I have been using simple cat-5 cable for much of my RS-422 data communications. You get two separate RS-422 streams (each stream with its own TX & RX pairs) in a single cat-5 cable.

I treat cat-5 cable as if it is simply four pairs of very high quality twisted-pair cable. The fact that all four pairs are inside a single jacket is simply irrelevant most of the time.

I use the cable for both RS-422 / RS-485 communications and balanced audio at line level (+4dBu). Crosstalk between pairs is simply not audible when using it for audio. I haven't had any data corruption issues either.

dwayne


At 09:46 AM 9/14/2018, Joe McCauley wrote:
>I have some radio receivers which output a data stream at 115K Baud
>(RS232). I need to locate 3 of them at the end of ~50m of cable. I was
>doing this by converting to RS422, driving an RS422 cable
>(expensive) and reconverting to RS232 at the other end. Worked fine &
>gave me the bidirectional data transfer I needed.
>
>Our layouts have changed which means I now need to run 3 longer
>RS422 cables, which means new cable for all receivers. I'd like to
>avoid that if at all possible and was wondering if a pair of these
>would work using a single CAT6 shielded cable rather than 3 RS422
>shielded twisted pair:
>
>https://www.cablematic.ie/ref/RS43?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI89DK6pG63QIVzuR3Ch
>0UAQ9iEAQYASABEgIqfvD_BwE
>
>The data from PC -> radios, while at 115kB, is just setup stuff.
>Send a few commands once & the radio dumps data at 115kB continuously
>to the PC. In the last incarnation of this system, I was using 1 PC to
>control 3 radios and 2 antenna mounts, so that PC & link combination
>was fine. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used these before, in
>particular with multiple high speed RS232 data paths.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Joe


--
Dwayne Reid <***@planet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
780-489-3199 voice 780-487-6397 fax [phone] Toll Free
www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

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