[OT]:: Detailed and expanding commentary on the ability to build an 'energy grid' with an extremely high renewables content

[Chris Smolinski]

> On Aug 1, 2017, at 4:20 AM, <***@stfc.ac.uk> <***@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> The UK government has failed in its attempts to roll out basic "smart"
>> meters over the last five years so I have little faith in their ability to
>> implement any workable form of demand management by 2050.
>
> I'm with you on that. Considering the reports of smart meters that charge people thousands of pounds a month erroneously, I doubt the ability to do anything "smart", and that includes all the road works for "smart roads" ...
>

FWIW, we've had smart meters here (I'm in Maryland in the USA) for several years now, and no real issues. Billing is accurate, and you can log onto the utility website to view your past usage, down to hourly resolution. They also use it to help immediately identity power outages and their coverage (without waiting for people to call in to complain their power is out), and identify the probable location of the fault.

Chris Smolinski
Black Cat Systems
http://www.blackcatsystems.com



--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Carlos Marcano]

Just curious, ¿Are those meters ethernet connected? ¿Cellular, radio, etc?

Thanks,

Carlos.

2017-08-01 9:49 GMT-04:00 Chris Smolinski <***@blackcatsystems.com>:

>
>
> > On Aug 1, 2017, at 4:20 AM, <***@stfc.ac.uk> <
> ***@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> The UK government has failed in its attempts to roll out basic "smart"
> >> meters over the last five years so I have little faith in their ability
> to
> >> implement any workable form of demand management by 2050.
> >
> > I'm with you on that. Considering the reports of smart meters that
> charge people thousands of pounds a month erroneously, I doubt the ability
> to do anything "smart", and that includes all the road works for "smart
> roads" ...
> >
>
> FWIW, we've had smart meters here (I'm in Maryland in the USA) for several
> years now, and no real issues. Billing is accurate, and you can log onto
> the utility website to view your past usage, down to hourly resolution.
> They also use it to help immediately identity power outages and their
> coverage (without waiting for people to call in to complain their power is
> out), and identify the probable location of the fault.
>
> Chris Smolinski
> Black Cat Systems
> http://www.blackcatsystems.com
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailm

[Chris Smolinski]

In our case they transmit on the 900 MHz band. There is an app that uses the RTL-SDR dongles to receive the transmissions (as well as from gas meters) but they don't work with the particular meters our utility uses.

Chris Smolinski
Black Cat Systems
http://www.blackcatsystems.com



> On Aug 1, 2017, at 10:24 AM, Carlos Marcano <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just curious, ¿Are those meters ethernet connected? ¿Cellular, radio, etc?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carlos.
>
> 2017-08-01 9:49 GMT-04:00 Chris Smolinski <***@blackcatsystems.com>:
>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 1, 2017, at 4:20 AM, <***@stfc.ac.uk> <
>> ***@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The UK government has failed in its attempts to roll out basic "smart"
>>>> meters over the last five years so I have little faith in their ability
>> to
>>>> implement any workable form of demand management by 2050.
>>>
>>> I'm with you on that. Considering the reports of smart meters that
>> charge people thousands of pounds a month erroneously, I doubt the ability
>> to do anything "smart", and that includes all the road works for "smart
>> roads" ...
>>>
>>
>> FWIW, we've had smart meters here (I'm in Maryland in the USA) for several
>> years now, and no real issues. Billing is accurate, and you can log onto
>> the utility website to view your past usage, down to hourly resolution.
>> They also use it to help immediately identity power outages and their
>> coverage (without waiting for people to call in to complain their power is
>> out), and identify the probable location of the fault.
>>
>> Chris Smolinski
>> Black Cat Systems
>> http://www.blackcatsystems.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> View/change your membership options at
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist


--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at

[Carlos Marcano]

Got it, thanks.

Carlos.

2017-08-01 10:35 GMT-04:00 Chris Smolinski <***@blackcatsystems.com>:

> In our case they transmit on the 900 MHz band. There is an app that uses
> the RTL-SDR dongles to receive the transmissions (as well as from gas
> meters) but they don't work with the particular meters our utility uses.
>
> Chris Smolinski
> Black Cat Systems
> http://www.blackcatsystems.com
>
>
>
> > On Aug 1, 2017, at 10:24 AM, Carlos Marcano <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Just curious, ¿Are those meters ethernet connected? ¿Cellular, radio,
> etc?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Carlos.
> >
> > 2017-08-01 9:49 GMT-04:00 Chris Smolinski <***@blackcatsystems.
> com>:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Aug 1, 2017, at 4:20 AM, <***@stfc.ac.uk> <
> >> ***@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The UK government has failed in its attempts to roll out basic "smart"
> >>>> meters over the last five years so I have little faith in their
> ability
> >> to
> >>>> implement any workable form of demand management by 2050.
> >>>
> >>> I'm with you on that. Considering the reports of smart meters that
> >> charge people thousands of pounds a month erroneously, I doubt the
> ability
> >> to do anything "smart", and that includes all the road works for "smart
> >> roads" ...
> >>>
> >>
> >> FWIW, we've had smart meters here (I'm in Maryland in the USA) for
> several
> >> years now, and no real issues. Billing is accurate, and you can log onto
> >> the utility website to view your past usage, down to hourly resolution.
> >> They also use it to help immediately identity power outages and their
> >> coverage (without waiting for people to call in to complain their power
> is
> >> out), and identify the probable location of the fault.
> >>
> >> Chris Smolinski
> >> Black Cat Systems
> >> http://www.blackcatsystems.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> >> View/change your membership options at
> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >>
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.

[Bob Blick]

The smartmeters are also a profit center: remotely shut off the power if you are late on your bill, then when you pay the bill plus $160 service charge they instantly turn it back on.

Bob

________________________________________
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> on behalf of Chris Smolinski
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 6:49 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [OT]:: Detailed and expanding commentary on the ability to build an 'energy grid' with an extremely high renewables content


FWIW, we've had smart meters here (I'm in Maryland in the USA) for several years now, and no real issues. Billing is accurate, and you can log onto the utility website to view your past usage, down to hourly resolution. They also use it to help immediately identity power outages and their coverage (without waiting for people to call in to complain their power is out), and identify the probable location of the fault.

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[James Cameron]

Random musings.

Accidentally primed for this topic by Risks 30.40 on demand management
of domestic food freezers.

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/30/40#subj23

My father's job was in transmission protection for the NSW grid in
Australia, so I had learned much in my youth.

Coal thermal stations are sited with their coal resource, operate
until nearby coal is depleted, and are foregone as uneconomic.

Nuclear nearly happened. My father designed the transmission
extension into the chosen federal territory, the land corridor was
reserved, and part of the transmission line was built. The project
did not go ahead. He said the cost of the fuel cycle equipment killed
the project more than the reported popular concern over radiation. We
visited the site last year. Lush vegetation.

Policy uncertainty in past few decades, and several other factors,
slowed and stopped the building of new coal thermal plant.

Last summer our grid suffered several extreme price events, and retail
prices have risen to compensate. I'm getting out. Working on 10kw
solar with LiFePO4 storage (Sonnen Eco), a zero export system.

Despite being zero export, thus only a load as far as the grid is
concerned, my designer has been told by the grid distributor that my
meters must be upgraded to time of use. Designer is pushing back,
asking for a rule number to explain why a zero export system should be
required to upgrade metering, to which one answer may be that the
distributor chooses not to upgrade meters unless the customer is
spending big on something, anything, so that the customer pays instead
of the distributor.

(Which reminds me; placing the solar array 50m away beyond trees is
apparently quite costly, four strings at 400V each means the
underground DC cable back to the battery inverters has to be more
special than normal.)

At another site I'm jointly responsible for, as part of a committee,
metering was replaced recently for free; it's an exporting system,
with solar array, grid interactive inverter, but no storage.
Previously one nett meter about ten years old. Now one complex meter
with LCD display and multiple values in the scroll sequence, including
export. Yet another meter added that only records export. It seems
redundant, and shows about the same values.

Was explaining the metering to a young child on Sunday, pointing out
the infrared communications port, and how infrared is invisible light,
like on television remote controls. Afterwards realised the child
will go home, borrow a phone camera, and start playing with remote
controls. ;-)

--
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist