[TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US

[IVP]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/09/19/pirates-yes-pirates-may-be-why-the-u-s-doesnt-use-the-metric-system/?utm_term=.c739938c1194

Last night by chance I happened to see part of an old episode of
American Choppers in which 3 brains were almost smoking trying
to do maths and argue in 10ths and 64ths of an inch

Joe


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[John Gardner]

There's no doubt that American Choppers has some

Mentat-grade talent, Joe...

Not that I mind l'Empereur's scheme... :)

On 9/20/17, IVP <***@clear.net.nz> wrote:
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/09/19/pirates-yes-pirates-may-be-why-the-u-s-doesnt-use-the-metric-system/?utm_term=.c739938c1194
>
> Last night by chance I happened to see part of an old episode of
> American Choppers in which 3 brains were almost smoking trying
> to do maths and argue in 10ths and 64ths of an inch
>
> Joe
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

​
On 21 September 2017 at 11:29, IVP <***@clear.net.nz> wrote:

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/
> 2017/09/19/pirates-yes-pirates-may-be-why-the-u-s-doesnt-
> use-the-metric-system/?utm_term=.c739938c1194
>
> Last night by chance I happened to see part of an old episode of
> American Choppers in which 3 brains were almost smoking trying
> to do maths and argue in 10ths and 64ths of an inch
>


FWIW: The metre was intended to be 1/10,000,000 th of the distance from the
North Pole to the equator on the meridian that runs through Paris, but
Napoleon's surveyors got a somewhat wrong result.

Kilogram bein redefined.
Article probably July 5th 2017
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/
wp/2017/07/05/scientists-are-about-to-change-what-a-
kilogram-is-thats-massive/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.42bece29c889

Definition to be based on Plank's constant, which has now been determined
ith an accuracy of under 20 parts per billion (they think) as ~~
6.626069934 x 10−34 kg∙m2/s.
T
​he photo of NIST's Kibble Balance alone makes the article worth looking at

Steam Punk lives !!!

* NIST Kibble Balance
<https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp-content/uploads/sites/36/2016/06/RSI-Schlamminger-Lee-NIST-4-balance-resized.jpg&w=1484>*


Russell
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options

[David C Brown]

The USA is in good company not using the Metric System. Myanmar and
Liberia are the other countries that don't.

This is a good web site if you need to be shown the error of your ways.
http://themetricmaven.com/

Never had any problem with decimal inches but our fitters and machinists
couldn't cope with it unless you specified every thing in "thous". Or
"mills" as the PCB fabricators prefer

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

On 21 September 2017 at 12:31, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> ​
> On 21 September 2017 at 11:29, IVP <***@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>
> > https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/
> > 2017/09/19/pirates-yes-pirates-may-be-why-the-u-s-doesnt-
> > use-the-metric-system/?utm_term=.c739938c1194
> >
> > Last night by chance I happened to see part of an old episode of
> > American Choppers in which 3 brains were almost smoking trying
> > to do maths and argue in 10ths and 64ths of an inch
> >
>
>
> FWIW: The metre was intended to be 1/10,000,000 th of the distance from the
> North Pole to the equator on the meridian that runs through Paris, but
> Napoleon's surveyors got a somewhat wrong result.
>
> Kilogram bein redefined.
> Article probably July 5th 2017
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/
> wp/2017/07/05/scientists-are-about-to-change-what-a-
> kilogram-is-thats-massive/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.42bece29c889
>
> Definition to be based on Plank's constant, which has now been determined
> ith an accuracy of under 20 parts per billion (they think) as ~~
> 6.626069934 x 10−34 kg∙m2/s.
> T
> ​he photo of NIST's Kibble Balance alone makes the article worth looking at
>
> Steam Punk lives !!!
>
> * NIST Kibble Balance
> <https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=
> https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/
> wp-content/uploads/sites/36/2016/06/RSI-Schlamminger-Lee-
> NIST-4-balance-resized.jpg&w=1484>*
>
>
> Russell
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://ma

[sd211]

I do not quite understand the lamentations about the USA not enforcing metric
system. There is no requirement to use one or the other system, at least I
have not seen one in my everyday or scientific life. You use what is better
for a specific purpose. There is a very precise and defined conversion from
one system to another :-). One could argue that the use of metric and
imperial systems trains brain for flexibility.

I would also argue that the other countries, which use metric system, need
to see the errors of their ways (pun intended). As the saying goes, there
are 2 kinds of countries: (1) one that has landed a man on the Moon,
invented internet, iPhone, transistor etc.; and (2) the kind that use metric
system.

What system to use should not be a matter of government enforcement, but
rather a matter of free market choice. Of course there is an implicit
assumption that there is a free market, but that is another discussion,
probably not for the PIClist.

For full disclosure: I was born and raised using metric system. After
about 5 yr in US, I have seen the error of my ways and started using
imperial system for most of everyday life and find it easier to work in
inches than in mm, e.g. when doing woodworking or PCB design. My
professional life is still in metric system though.

Sergey



--
Sent from: http://microcontrollers.2385.n7.nabble.com/MicroControllers-PIC-f3.html
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Chris McSweeny]

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 5:55 PM, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:

> I do not quite understand the lamentations about the USA not enforcing
> metric
> system. There is no requirement to use one or the other system, at least I
> have not seen one in my everyday or scientific life. You use what is
> better
> for a specific purpose. There is a very precise and defined conversion
> from
> one system to another :-). One could argue that the use of metric and
> imperial systems trains brain for flexibility.
>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[sd211]

Yes, I knew about that. That must be a reason to prohibit non-SI units!
Or, maybe, it was a software/interface problem? If we follow the logic of
prohibiting stuff for software errors, we should disconnect internet, stop
using electronics in cars etc. Now, I just need to find that internet kill
switch :-)

Some of the "fun" reading: http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~nachumd/horror.html

Best,
Sergey



--
Sent from: http://microcontrollers.2385.n7.nabble.com/MicroControllers-PIC-f3.html
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On 22 September 2017 at 04:55, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:


> As the saying goes, there
> are 2 kinds of countries: (1) one that has landed a man on the Moon,
> invented internet, iPhone, transistor etc.; and (2) the kind that use
> metric
> system.
>

​There are 2 kinds of countries.

1. Those who have ​placed a spacecraft in Mars orbit at their first
attempt*.
2. The rest.

Russell

​* *Photos of Mars taken from their Mars-orbiting spacecraft.
. <https://www.space.com/23203-india-mars-orbiter-mission-photos.html>*
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailm

[David C Brown]

There are two kinds of countries
1. Those who have ​placed a spacecraft in Mars orbit at their first
attempt*.
2. Those who have spent their aero-space budget wisely :-) :-)

One of the problems of having concurrent metric and imperial systems in,
for example, the building trade is that builders merchants have to hold
stock in both systems with all the additional warehousing costs.

And in engineering you have two sets of fasteners which introduces another
problem. One I encountered when collaborating with the VLA engineers in
New Mexico. Some American screws are indistinguishable by eye from metric
ones. But if they get mixed up, as sods law insists they will, the
strength of the fastening.can be seriously compromise. There was an
incident some thirty years ago when an aeroplane blew out its cockpit
window and crashed for a similar reason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390#Investigation

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

On 22 September 2017 at 08:10, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 22 September 2017 at 04:55, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:
>
>
> > As the saying goes, there
> > are 2 kinds of countries: (1) one that has landed a man on the Moon,
> > invented internet, iPhone, transistor etc.; and (2) the kind that use
> > metric
> > system.
> >
>
> ​There are 2 kinds of countries.
>
> 1. Those who have ​placed a spacecraft in Mars orbit at their first
> attempt*.
> 2. The rest.
>
> Russell
>
> ​* *Photos of Mars taken from their Mars-orbiting spacecraft.
> . <https://www.space.com/23203-india-mars-orbiter-mission-photos.html>*
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at

[RussellMc]

On 22 September 2017 at 20:09, David C Brown <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> There are two kinds of countries
>

​Three.​



> 1. Those who have ​placed a spacecraft in Mars orbit at their first
> attempt*.
> 2. Those who have spent their aero-space budget wisely :-) :-)
>
> ​3. Those who manage to do both.

Wisdom is a complex discipline.
When international perceptions are perceived to be paramount and/or you and
your nearest neighbour have 'nukes' and a major insoluble to-the-death
disagreement, sometimes aerospace achievements may be a more significant
factor than otherwise. Life is complex (it comprises of real and imaginary
parts).


​...​
Some American screws are indistinguishable by eye from metric

> ones. But if they get mixed up, as sods law insists they will, the
> strength of the fastening.can be seriously compromise. There was an
> incident some thirty years ago when an aeroplane blew out its cockpit
> window and crashed for a similar reason.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390#Investigation
>
> ​Yes, but: It was landed safely by the co-pilot. The pilot spent about 20
minutes with most of his body outside the aircraft, but lived, and
recommenced flying within 5 months. ​



​ Russell
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership opti

[Rodolfo]

There are countries that pollute and contaminate the atmosfere and the
rest.
We will have to emigrate to Mars.

En Fri, 22 Sep 2017 04:10:10 -0300, RussellMc <***@gmail.com>
escribió:

> On 22 September 2017 at 04:55, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:
>
>
>> As the saying goes, there
>> are 2 kinds of countries: (1) one that has landed a man on the Moon,
>> invented internet, iPhone, transistor etc.; and (2) the kind that use
>> metric
>> system.
>>
>
> ​There are 2 kinds of countries.
>
> 1. Those who have ​placed a spacecraft in Mars orbit at their first
> attempt*.
> 2. The rest.
>
> Russell
>
> ​* *Photos of Mars taken from their Mars-orbiting
> spacecraft.
> . <https://www.space.com/23203-india-mars-orbiter-mission-photos.html>*


--
Usando el cliente de correo de Opera: http://www.opera.com/mail/

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailma

[Bob Blick]

I love that pure Martian atmosphere, take a few deep lungfulls and it makes me feel young again :)

Friendly regards,
Bob

________________________________________
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> on behalf of Rodolfo
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 3:00 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.; RussellMc
Subject: Re: [TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US

There are countries that pollute and contaminate the atmosfere and the
rest.
We will have to emigrate to Mars.

En Fri, 22 Sep 2017 04:10:10 -0300, RussellMc escribió:

> On 22 September 2017 at 04:55, sd211 wrote:
>
>
>> As the saying goes, there
>> are 2 kinds of countries: (1) one that has landed a man on the Moon,
>> invented internet, iPhone, transistor etc.; and (2) the kind that use
>> metric
>> system.
>>
>
> ​There are 2 kinds of countries.
>
> 1. Those who have ​placed a spacecraft in Mars orbit at their first
> attempt*.
> 2. The rest.
>
> Russell
>
> ​* *Photos of Mars taken from their Mars-orbiting
> spacecraft.
> . <https://www.space.com/23203-india-mars-orbiter-mission-photos.html>*


--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.

[Ryan O'Connor]

Now they just need to do the same thing with the second. It would be great
to not have to worry about leap years.

Ryan

On 21 September 2017 at 23:31, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> ​
> On 21 September 2017 at 11:29, IVP <***@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>
> > https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/
> > 2017/09/19/pirates-yes-pirates-may-be-why-the-u-s-doesnt-
> > use-the-metric-system/?utm_term=.c739938c1194
> >
> > Last night by chance I happened to see part of an old episode of
> > American Choppers in which 3 brains were almost smoking trying
> > to do maths and argue in 10ths and 64ths of an inch
> >
>
>
> FWIW: The metre was intended to be 1/10,000,000 th of the distance from the
> North Pole to the equator on the meridian that runs through Paris, but
> Napoleon's surveyors got a somewhat wrong result.
>
> Kilogram bein redefined.
> Article probably July 5th 2017
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/
> wp/2017/07/05/scientists-are-about-to-change-what-a-
> kilogram-is-thats-massive/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.42bece29c889
>
> Definition to be based on Plank's constant, which has now been determined
> ith an accuracy of under 20 parts per billion (they think) as ~~
> 6.626069934 x 10−34 kg∙m2/s.
> T
> ​he photo of NIST's Kibble Balance alone makes the article worth looking at
>
> Steam Punk lives !!!
>
> * NIST Kibble Balance
> <https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=
> https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/
> wp-content/uploads/sites/36/2016/06/RSI-Schlamminger-Lee-
> NIST-4-balance-resized.jpg&w=1484>*
>
>
> Russell
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/

[Chris McSweeny]

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Ryan O'Connor <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Now they just need to do the same thing with the second. It would be great
> to not have to worry about leap years.
>

I'm not quite sure if you're joking, but just in case you're not, the
requirement for leap years is nothing to do with the definition of the
second (hint: how many days does the Earth take to rotate around the sun?)

Chris
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi:

We have only one system:
FPS Foot Pound Second - Power: Horsepower, Pressure: PSI, Magnetic field: Amp Turn/Inch

There are many "metric systems". The fundamental system would be called "MGS" for Meter, Gram, Second but there is no
such system instead there are the following systems:
CGS -Centimeter Gram Second - Power: ergs/sec, Pressure: atmospheres, Magnetic field: gamma or gauss
MKS - Meter Kilogram Second - Power: Watt (Joule/Sec), Pressure Pascal, Magnetic field: Tesla
SI - International System of Units (French) - not sure about the relationship between MKS and SI, but that's just
another one of the many metric systems.

While metric is very handy for length and mass because of the ease of conversions inside those units, the nightmare of
the magnetic and other unit differences between the various metric systems makes reading in any subject very difficult
because you need to look up how to convert from one to the other. I can remember 2.54 mm/inch or 39.37inchs/meter and
28.3495 grams/ounce and from there get to the other length and mass units, but no way can anyone remember all the other
conversions in the derived units.

Even the volume conversion between metric and FPS causes problems:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider#Running_out_of_fuel
http://mentalfloss.com/article/25845/quick-6-six-unit-conversion-disasters

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

-------- Original Message --------
> Re: [TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[IVP]

> the nightmare of ..... other unit differences between the various metric
> systems

The metric system does have the common x10 factor

I remember having a tech drawing ruler at school with graduations of
1/4, 1/5, 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, 1/12, 1/20, 1/24, 1/25, 1/32, 1/48, 1/50 and
1/64. No mm or cm. That was how it was at the time so you could
safely assume that anyone else would have a similar ruler. I very much
doubt you could find one these days. I recenty had trouble finding a
ruler with 1/10ths (for a bit of PCB work) and had to print one

I have some nostalgia for hogsheads, leagues, firkins, barleycorns,
and farthings but decimal is generally less stressful

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Van Horn, David]

Furlongs per Fortnight?

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of IVP
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 3:46 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US

> the nightmare of ..... other unit differences between the various
> metric systems

The metric system does have the common x10 factor

I remember having a tech drawing ruler at school with graduations of 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, 1/12, 1/20, 1/24, 1/25, 1/32, 1/48, 1/50 and 1/64. No mm or cm. That was how it was at the time so you could safely assume that anyone else would have a similar ruler. I very much doubt you could find one these days. I recenty had trouble finding a ruler with 1/10ths (for a bit of PCB work) and had to print one

I have some nostalgia for hogsheads, leagues, firkins, barleycorns, and farthings but decimal is generally less stressful

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Clint Jay]

I would respectfully direct you all to the recommended and respected
measurement system which is widely used here in Europe.

https://m.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/24/vulture_central_standards/


I have included a link to a handy conversion calculator to enable those
who insist on using outdated imperial and metric systems to transition.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/Design/page/reg-standards-converter.html

On 21 Sep 2017 23:35, "Van Horn, David" <***@backcountryaccess.com>
wrote:

> Furlongs per Fortnight?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf
> Of IVP
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 3:46 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US
>
> > the nightmare of ..... other unit differences between the various
> > metric systems
>
> The metric system does have the common x10 factor
>
> I remember having a tech drawing ruler at school with graduations of 1/4,
> 1/5, 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, 1/12, 1/20, 1/24, 1/25, 1/32, 1/48, 1/50 and 1/64. No
> mm or cm. That was how it was at the time so you could safely assume that
> anyone else would have a similar ruler. I very much doubt you could find
> one these days. I recenty had trouble finding a ruler with 1/10ths (for a
> bit of PCB work) and had to print one
>
> I have some nostalgia for hogsheads, leagues, firkins, barleycorns, and
> farthings but decimal is generally less stressful
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/
> mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[IVP]

> Furlongs per Fortnight?

"The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to
the hogshead and that's the way I likes it"

Grampa Simpson

-> 40/320th of a mile per (pick a definition of hogshead)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogshead

Not good "kilometerage" anyway

Pretty much a top fuel dragster with a hole in the tank

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Chris McSweeny]

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 10:13 PM, Brooke Clarke <***@pacific.net> wrote:

> Hi:
>
> We have only one system:
> FPS Foot Pound Second - Power: Horsepower, Pressure: PSI, Magnetic field:
> Amp Turn/Inch
>



> There are many "metric systems".


Really? The only one which matters is SI - that's the basis on which
anything scientific is done, and all the units directly relate to the base
units (there are a few more than MKS, which are some of the base
measurement units of the SI system - eg the Ampere which is the worldwide
standard for electrical current and on which the definition for the Tesla
is based).

Hence the unit for power is W and 1W = 1kg * m^2 / s^3

How many foot * pound^2 / s^3 in a horsepower?


Chris
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Sean Breheny]

For most common engineering tasks you are right, Chris. However Brooke is
correct about magnetism and also about atomic physics. There are several
quite different sets of units when it comes to this topic.

For example, oersteds versus amperes per meter versus ampere-turns and also
Teslas versus gauss.

There are also abvolts and statvolts, abamperes and statamperes and
statcoulombs.


On Sep 21, 2017 7:04 PM, "Chris McSweeny" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 10:13 PM, Brooke Clarke <***@pacific.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi:
> >
> > We have only one system:
> > FPS Foot Pound Second - Power: Horsepower, Pressure: PSI, Magnetic field:
> > Amp Turn/Inch
> >
>
>
>
> > There are many "metric systems".
>
>
> Really? The only one which matters is SI - that's the basis on which
> anything scientific is done, and all the units directly relate to the base
> units (there are a few more than MKS, which are some of the base
> measurement units of the SI system - eg the Ampere which is the worldwide
> standard for electrical current and on which the definition for the Tesla
> is based).
>
> Hence the unit for power is W and 1W = 1kg * m^2 / s^3
>
> How many foot * pound^2 / s^3 in a horsepower?
>
>
> Chris
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Chris McSweeny]

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Sean Breheny <***@cornell.edu> wrote:

> For most common engineering tasks you are right, Chris. However Brooke is
> correct about magnetism and also about atomic physics. There are several
> quite different sets of units when it comes to this topic.
>

Not in the SI system, which is the only one which matters and which is what
anybody doing science or engineering in metric uses. As I wrote before, the
Tesla isn't even a fundamental unit, it's defined in terms of kg, A and s.

I'm not sure why the CGs system is even being brought up - I might as well
suggest there are multiple imperial systems because some people like to
measure speed in furlongs per fortnight (though of course as soon as you
want to measure volume there definitively are multiple imperial systems -
how many cubic feet in a gallon?)

Though I live in a country where we happily mix units without any big
problems - all proper engineering is done in SI units, so no conversion
issues, but if I go to the timber yard and ask for 8ft of 2x4 they'll
happily sell me a 50mm x 100mm x 2.4m bit of wood without having to get a
calculator out. My car speedo reads in miles per hour and distance signs
are in miles, but motorway marker posts are in km, I buy fuel in litres and
maps have km grid squares and height in metres. If I go to the pub I buy
beer in pints but if I go to the shops bottles of beer are normally 500ml
though I can buy 568ml of milk or a 454g pack of sausages.

Chris
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On 22 September 2017 at 21:12, Chris McSweeny <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Sean Breheny <***@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> ​>​
> > For most common engineering tasks you are right, Chris. However Brooke is
> ​>​
> > correct about magnetism and also about atomic physics. There are several
> ​>​
> > quite different sets of units when it comes to this topic.
>
>
> ​>
> how many cubic feet in a gallon?)
>

About ​10/62.3 from memory.

About 55 years ago memopry says I was taught:

A cubic foot of water weighs 62.3 lbf
A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
A ...
​

>
> Though I live in a country where we happily mix units without any big
> problems - all proper engineering is done in SI units, so no conversion
> issues,


​Just try and buy 10 Newtons of anything. Just try.
(9.8 Newtons is easier*, though not so labelled).

But 0.1 slug of mince-meat is also hard to find.
​
* At mean sea level.


> but if I go to the timber yard and ask for 8ft of 2x4 they'll
> happily sell me a 50mm x 100mm x 2.4m bit of wood without having to get a
> calculator out.


​NZ: Yes.
​

> My car speedo reads in miles per hour and distance signs
> are in miles,
> ​
> ​
> but motorway marker posts are in km,​


​NZ: km, km, km. Miles have gone, except in old brains.
​

> ​
> I buy fuel in litres and
> ​
> maps have km grid squares and height in metres. If I go to the pub I buy
> beer in pints


​NZ all SI metric. ​

but if I go to the shops bottles of beer are normally 500ml
> though I can buy 568ml of milk or a 454g pack of sausages.
>

​Bottles all SI.
Milk was 600 ml ​for many years.
Now all Si - usually 1 itre smallest.
Cream 100, 250, 500. ... ml
454g still persists in some areas.
Butter once was but now 500g.





> ​ Russell
>


> ​
>
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://

[Chris McSweeny]

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:33 PM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
>

I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there :)

Chris
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On 23 September 2017 at 09:51, Chris McSweeny <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:33 PM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
> >
>
> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there :)
>
>
​Quite likely.
Most people, maybe :-).
But as in Science, consensus does not cause fact :-).
​
​
https://www.facebook.com/notes/scotland/to-the-citizens-of-the-united-states-of-america-from-her-sovereign-majesty-queen/291122994249694/

​

​R​
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership optio

[William Westfield]

> A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
>> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there :)

If the US is going to get singled out as the only country that hasn’t converted to metric, then surely the relevant “gallon” is a “US Gallon”, which is only about 8lb?

I’m relatively ashamed that the US hasn’t gone metric (metrification was a big thing when I was in school), but then a message from across the pond will say something about someone weighing 15 Stone, and I feel better.

:-)
BillW


--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[David C Brown]

No one is singling out the USA as the only country that hasn't converted to
metric. Neither Liberia nor Myanmar has either.


__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

On 24 September 2017 at 04:35, William Westfield <***@mac.com> wrote:

> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
> >> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there :)
>
> If the US is going to get singled out as the only country that hasn’t
> converted to metric, then surely the relevant “gallon” is a “US Gallon”,
> which is only about 8lb?
>
> I’m relatively ashamed that the US hasn’t gone metric (metrification was a
> big thing when I was in school), but then a message from across the pond
> will say something about someone weighing 15 Stone, and I feel better.
>
> :-)
> BillW
>
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/

[r***@bredband.net]

Not using the same system of measure globally just shows how young our
civilisation is. The same thing goes for spoken language. But not to
worry, this will fix itself in the close future when we realize how much
time and effort is spent on translation (of both unit of measure and
language).

/Ruben
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Jason White]

Or, perhaps technology will continue to make translation and conversion
easier. One day, it very well may not matter what language you speak or
what measure you know.

I suspect some things may never change. (Although I certainly wouldn't mind
if they did)

-Jason White

On Sunday, September 24, 2017, <***@bredband.net> wrote:

> Not using the same system of measure globally just shows how young our
> civilisation is. The same thing goes for spoken language. But not to
> worry, this will fix itself in the close future when we realize how much
> time and effort is spent on translation (of both unit of measure and
> language).
>
> /Ruben
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>


--
Jason White
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Bob Ammerman]

No, it's obvious: our Robot Overlords will impose a single units system and
single language on what is left of humanity.

-- Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems


>
> > Not using the same system of measure globally just shows how young our
> > civilisation is. The same thing goes for spoken language. But not to
> > worry, this will fix itself in the close future when we realize how
> > much time and effort is spent on translation (of both unit of measure
> > and language).
> >
> > /Ruben
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
>
>
> --
> Jason White
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Clint Jay]

What makes you think we will be allowed a language?

On 25 Sep 2017 14:56, "Bob Ammerman" <***@roadrunner.com> wrote:

> No, it's obvious: our Robot Overlords will impose a single units system and
> single language on what is left of humanity.
>
> -- Bob Ammerman
> RAm Systems
>
>
> >
> > > Not using the same system of measure globally just shows how young our
> > > civilisation is. The same thing goes for spoken language. But not to
> > > worry, this will fix itself in the close future when we realize how
> > > much time and effort is spent on translation (of both unit of measure
> > > and language).
> > >
> > > /Ruben
> > > --
> > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > View/change your membership options at
> > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jason White
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Jean-Paul Louis]

> On Sep 24, 2017, at 4:10 PM, ***@bredband.net wrote:
>
> Not using the same system of measure globally just shows how young our
> civilisation is. The same thing goes for spoken language. But not to
> worry, this will fix itself in the close future when we realize how much
> time and effort is spent on translation (of both unit of measure and
> language).
>
> /Ruben
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist


Hello Ruben,

I am just curious. By your statement, do you mean that the system will fix itself, and we will all speak the
same language?

Which language would that be?
Mandarin? Spanish? Arabic? Any of those is spoken more than english.





Just my $0.02,

Jean-Paul
N1JPL




--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[r***@bredband.net]

On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 17:54:13 -0400, Jean-Paul Louis <***@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> On Sep 24, 2017, at 4:10 PM, ***@bredband.net wrote:
>>
>> Not using the same system of measure globally just shows how young our
>> civilisation is. The same thing goes for spoken language. But not to
>> worry, this will fix itself in the close future when we realize how much
>> time and effort is spent on translation (of both unit of measure and
>> language).
>>
>> /Ruben
>> --
>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> View/change your membership options at
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
>
> Hello Ruben,
>
> I am just curious. By your statement, do you mean that the system
> will fix itself, and we will all speak the
> same language?
>
> Which language would that be?
> Mandarin? Spanish? Arabic? Any of those is spoken more than english.
>
> Just my $0.02,
>
> Jean-Paul
> N1JPL

I don't know. Whichever we will benefit the most from. It's just like
evolution. Or we will, as Jason White suggested, have devices that do
the translation for us. Perhaps something implanted.

/Ruben
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[rossano gobbi]

Or maybe we'll just keep struggling to understand each other, like we always did. :-)

Rossano

> Il giorno 25 set 2017, alle ore 17:56, <***@bredband.net> <***@bredband.net> ha scritto:
>
>
> On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 17:54:13 -0400, Jean-Paul Louis <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> On Sep 24, 2017, at 4:10 PM, ***@bredband.net wrote:
>>>
>>> Not using the same system of measure globally just shows how young our
>>> civilisation is. The same thing goes for spoken language. But not to
>>> worry, this will fix itself in the close future when we realize how much
>>> time and effort is spent on translation (of both unit of measure and
>>> language).
>>>
>>> /Ruben
>>> --
>>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>>> View/change your membership options at
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>
>>
>> Hello Ruben,
>>
>> I am just curious. By your statement, do you mean that the system
>> will fix itself, and we will all speak the
>> same language?
>>
>> Which language would that be?
>> Mandarin? Spanish? Arabic? Any of those is spoken more than english.
>>
>> Just my $0.02,
>>
>> Jean-Paul
>> N1JPL
>
> I don't know. Whichever we will benefit the most from. It's just like
> evolution. Or we will, as Jason White suggested, have devices that do
> the translation for us. Perhaps something implanted.
>
> /Ruben
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On 25 September 2017 at 10:54, Jean-Paul Louis <***@gmail.com> wrote:


> I am just curious. By your statement, do you mean that the system will fix
> itself, and we will all speak the
> same language?
>
> Which language would that be?
> Mandarin? Spanish? Arabic? Any of those is spoken more than english.
>
>
​English tends to be the lingua Franca thus far, eh what?


​ Russell​

Lingua franca <https://wiki2.org/en/Lingua_franca> - not quite what one may
expect :-)
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/l

[David C Brown]

Mandarin, Spanish and Arabic might be more spoken than English. But,
because it is the second language of so many, there are more people in the
word who are able to speak English than can speak any other language.
In making that assessment I am being charitable in counting the 300E6
population of the USA as English speakers, though my visits to the country
have sometimes led me to doubt that. :-)

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

On 26 September 2017 at 07:16, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 25 September 2017 at 10:54, Jean-Paul Louis <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > I am just curious. By your statement, do you mean that the system will
> fix
> > itself, and we will all speak the
> > same language?
> >
> > Which language would that be?
> > Mandarin? Spanish? Arabic? Any of those is spoken more than english.
> >
> >
> ​English tends to be the lingua Franca thus far, eh what?
>
>
> ​ Russell​
>
> Lingua franca <https://wiki2.org/en/Lingua_franca> - not quite what one
> may
> expect :-)
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.ed

[Jean-Paul Louis]

I agree with you, Russel.

While I was working in the Middle East, English was really the lingua franca between natives and foreign contractors.

I remember one time working side by side with a Japanese engineer, and using English to communicate as I was not speaking Japanese and he wasn’t speaking French, so the lingua franca was English. One day he needed a Philips screw driver, but didn’t know the “Philips” part, so he asked me if he could borrow my “plus” screw-driver. That’s how lingua franca works, just a way to better communication.



> On Sep 26, 2017, at 2:16 AM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 25 September 2017 at 10:54, Jean-Paul Louis <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I am just curious. By your statement, do you mean that the system will fix
>> itself, and we will all speak the
>> same language?
>>
>> Which language would that be?
>> Mandarin? Spanish? Arabic? Any of those is spoken more than english.
>>
>>
> ​English tends to be the lingua Franca thus far, eh what?
>
>
> ​ Russell​
>
> Lingua franca <https://wiki2.org/en/Lingua_franca> - not quite what one may
> expect :-)
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

Just my $0.02,

Jean-Paul
N1JPL




--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Since this thread seems to have been resurrected, I figure I'll add my
$0.02:

I agree that the problem is largely fixing itself. At least for a lot of
the engineering work.

>From what I understand:

It used to be that american cars used SAE (aka non-metric) bolts. Hasn't
been that way for quite a while.

Aerospace has all moved, globally to metric. I think the final push to
weed the last of it out was as a result of the Mars Climate Orbiter.

I also understand that medical in the US has moved to metric as well...

Same for a lot of the other industries. About he only things we're still
using english units for are things which are very hard to change, and are
actually things which are still used globally in their english form. For
instance, IC and connector pitches are largely still english based, but
typically still specified in both units (2.54mm = 0.1 inch pitch).
Changing would require a global change, and there isn't really much
incentive to do so. That said, I've noticed more and more metric-sized
connectors and IC's - another sign that things are resolving themselves.

But, that's all under the surface. The 'user interface' still tends to be
in whatever units the operator is familiar with. I have a new auto and
regularly drive on both sides of the US/Canada. When I reach the border, I
just switch the units on the dash in software, and proceed about my life.
I'm guessing that under the surface everything runs in metric units.

I'd expect that as time goes on, eventually we'll end up with fewer and
fewer places where non-metric even exists. This is without any forced
migration by governments.


On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 2:10 PM, <***@bredband.net> wrote:

> Not using the same system of measure globally just shows how young our
> civilisation is. The same thing goes for spoken language. But not to
> worry, this will fix itself in the close future when we realize how much
> time and effort is spent on translation (of both unit of measure and
> language).
>
> /Ruben
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>



--
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: [phone] | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
***@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On 2 October 2017 at 20:36, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
***@packetflux.com> wrote:

> ​
>
​...
I have a new auto and

> ​​
> regularly drive on both sides of the US/Canada. When I reach the border, I
> just switch the units on the dash in software, and proceed about my life.


​Presumably with a (mental) binary side of road selector to ensure that you
"
​
regularly drive on both sides" with toggling always and only at country
boundaries.


Russell
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/pic

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

(Apparently I missed a word in my reply... oops, insert 'border' in one
more place). Fortunately, I have yet to drive in a country where I need
'side of the road' swapovers. (US, Canada and Germany are my limits of
experience here).

I will say that I definitely have a bit of bug in my 'border units
switchover code'. It seems that if there is insufficient wait time at the
border, the wetware code tends to not fire, resulting in brief periods of
the wrong system being used on the wrong side of the border. This usually
results in operator frustration about the first time the cruise control is
engaged. It would be nice if the GPS system took care of it just like it
does time zones.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 2:21 AM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2 October 2017 at 20:36, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> ***@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> > ​
> >
> ​...
> I have a new auto and
>
> > ​​
> > regularly drive on both sides of the US/Canada. When I reach the
> border, I
> > just switch the units on the dash in software, and proceed about my life.
>
>
> ​Presumably with a (mental) binary side of road selector to ensure that you
> "
> ​
> regularly drive on both sides" with toggling always and only at country
> boundaries.
>
>
> Russell
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>



--
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: [phone] | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
***@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listin

[Chris McSweeny]

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
***@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Same for a lot of the other industries. About he only things we're still
> using english units for are things which are very hard to change, and are
> actually things which are still used globally in their english form. For
> instance, IC and connector pitches are largely still english based, but
> typically still specified in both units (2.54mm = 0.1 inch pitch).
> Changing would require a global change, and there isn't really much
> incentive to do so. That said, I've noticed more and more metric-sized
> connectors and IC's - another sign that things are resolving themselves.
>

I expect 0.1 inch pitch ICs and PCBs to be around for a long time - though
as you suggest, they're actually specified in mm, so there isn't a
particular issue either way.

Other things which are still "imperial pitch" globally, and likely to be
for a long time:
bicycle chains and headset bearings (though almost everything else on a
modern bicycle is now pure metric - even tyres are properly specified in
metric even if imperial descriptors are still used)
aircraft flight levels (not completely universal, though the trend appears
to be away from metric)

any more to add to that list?

Chris
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[peter green]

On 02/10/17 08:36, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
> Same for a lot of the other industries. About he only things we're still
> using english units for are things which are very hard to change, and are
> actually things which are still used globally in their english form. For
> instance, IC and connector pitches are largely still english based,

I wish.

Unfortunately it seems that half your components are on a metric grid and half of them are on an imperial grid. As a rule of thumb things with pitches larger than around 1mm are usually on an imperial grid while things with pitches smaller than 1mm are usually on a metric grid.

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[a***@stfc.ac.uk]

> > Same for a lot of the other industries. About he only things we're still
> > using english units for are things which are very hard to change, and
> > are actually things which are still used globally in their english
> > form. For instance, IC and connector pitches are largely still
> > english based,
>
> I wish.
>
> Unfortunately it seems that half your components are on a metric grid and
> half of them are on an imperial grid. As a rule of thumb things with pitches
> larger than around 1mm are usually on an imperial grid while things with
> pitches smaller than 1mm are usually on a metric grid.

Yes, I have noticed smaller pitch items tending towards metric grid.



--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Isaac M. Bavaresco]

From the Wikipedia:

"SAE is used as a tool marking to indicate that they are not metric (SI)
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system> based tools, as the two
systems are incompatible. A common mistake is to use SAE interchangeably
with the word "Imperial <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units>"
units (British), which is not the same as the USCS standard that SAE uses."


To the ones that complained about the "many" metric systems. It seems
that there are also more than one "english" system of units.



Em 02/10/2017 10:58, ***@stfc.ac.uk escreveu:
>>> Same for a lot of the other industries. About he only things we're still
>>> using english units for are things which are very hard to change, and
>>> are actually things which are still used globally in their english
>>> form. For instance, IC and connector pitches are largely still
>>> english based,
>> I wish.
>>
>> Unfortunately it seems that half your components are on a metric grid and
>> half of them are on an imperial grid. As a rule of thumb things with pitches
>> larger than around 1mm are usually on an imperial grid while things with
>> pitches smaller than 1mm are usually on a metric grid.
> Yes, I have noticed smaller pitch items tending towards metric grid.
>
>
>



---
Este email foi escaneado pelo Avast antivírus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mi

[a***@stfc.ac.uk]

> To the ones that complained about the "many" metric systems. It seems that
> there are also more than one "english" system of units.

Yep, it is like trying to use the small BA series of screws that were commonly used for small mechanical fixings in the UK and related countries before metrification came along. They are very similar to similar sized metric screws, but attempting to use a BA nut on a metric screw or vice versa you get thread binding, even though they seem to fit.



--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[David C Brown]

BA screws are actually metric. The 0BA is 6mm OD and 1mm thread pitch.
Each higher number is 10 smaller in OD and pitch which gives a very logical
progression (though odd nhubers are very rarely used). But the thread form
is the now obsolete Swiss Thury form which is 47.5degrees with a depth of
0.6*pitch whereas the modern metric series has a 60degree thread and is
slightly deeper

The 4BA screw was widely used for fitting electric accessories to their
backboxes and, for the benefit of electricians, a 3.5mm screw was
introduced to which size the old backbox could be retapped. Or, in
practice and with a big screwdriver, the M3.5 screw could be forced into
the 4BA receptacle.

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

On 2 October 2017 at 16:24, <***@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:

> > To the ones that complained about the "many" metric systems. It seems
> that
> > there are also more than one "english" system of units.
>
> Yep, it is like trying to use the small BA series of screws that were
> commonly used for small mechanical fixings in the UK and related countries
> before metrification came along. They are very similar to similar sized
> metric screws, but attempting to use a BA nut on a metric screw or vice
> versa you get thread binding, even though they seem to fit.
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Allen Mulvey]

I ran into this some time ago when I got an Ariel motorcycle. It used the Whitworth system. (English, I think.) In the SAE system a 1/2 inch nut had a span of 1/2 inch from flat to flat. A 1/2 inch Whitworth nut had a 1/2 inch hole in it. I had to buy a whole new set of tools to work on it. I finally traded it to a friend for an extra engine for my Indian Chief.

Allen

> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-
> ***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Isaac M. Bavaresco
> Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 10:56 AM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US
>
> From the Wikipedia:
>
> "SAE is used as a tool marking to indicate that they are not
> metric (SI)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system> based tools,
> as the two
> systems are incompatible. A common mistake is to use SAE
> interchangeably
> with the word "Imperial
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units>"
> units (British), which is not the same as the USCS standard
> that SAE uses."
>
>
> To the ones that complained about the "many" metric
> systems. It seems
> that there are also more than one "english" system of units.
>
>
>
> Em 02/10/2017 10:58, ***@stfc.ac.uk escreveu:
> >>> Same for a lot of the other industries. About he only
> things we're still
> >>> using english units for are things which are very hard to
> change, and
> >>> are actually things which are still used globally in their
> english
> >>> form. For instance, IC and connector pitches are largely
> still
> >>> english based,
> >> I wish.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately it seems that half your components are on a
> metric grid and
> >> half of them are on an imperial grid. As a rule of thumb
> things with pitches
> >> larger than around 1mm are usually on an imperial grid
> while things with
> >> pitches smaller than 1mm are usually on a metric grid.
> > Yes, I have noticed smaller pitch items tending towards
> metric grid.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---
> Este email foi escaneado pelo Avast antivírus.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list
> archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist


--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://

[David C Brown]

In the British Standard Whitworth system the length of the FLAT of the nut
is equal to the diameter of the bolt which gives some rather odd AF
measurements. Just to confuse things some British engine manufacturers in
the fifties used metric bolts with Whitworth size heads so mecheanics
didn't need new spanners.

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#m_-3467671120555864876_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

On 2 October 2017 at 16:32, Allen Mulvey <***@amulvey.com> wrote:

> I ran into this some time ago when I got an Ariel motorcycle. It used the
> Whitworth system. (English, I think.) In the SAE system a 1/2 inch nut had
> a span of 1/2 inch from flat to flat. A 1/2 inch Whitworth nut had a 1/2
> inch hole in it. I had to buy a whole new set of tools to work on it. I
> finally traded it to a friend for an extra engine for my Indian Chief.
>
> Allen
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-
> > ***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Isaac M. Bavaresco
> > Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 10:56 AM
> > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> > Subject: Re: [TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US
> >
> > From the Wikipedia:
> >
> > "SAE is used as a tool marking to indicate that they are not
> > metric (SI)
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system> based tools,
> > as the two
> > systems are incompatible. A common mistake is to use SAE
> > interchangeably
> > with the word "Imperial
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units>"
> > units (British), which is not the same as the USCS standard
> > that SAE uses."
> >
> >
> > To the ones that complained about the "many" metric
> > systems. It seems
> > that there are also more than one "english" system of units.
> >
> >
> >
> > Em 02/10/2017 10:58, ***@stfc.ac.uk escreveu:
> > >>> Same for a lot of the other industries. About he only
> > things we're still
> > >>> using english units for are things which are very hard to
> > change, and
> > >>> are actually things which are still used globally in their
> > english
> > >>> form. For instance, IC and connector pitches are largely
> > still
> > >>> english based,
> > >> I wish.
> > >>
> > >> Unfortunately it seems that half your components are on a
> > metric grid and
> > >> half of them are on an imperial grid. As a rule of thumb
> > things with pitches
> > >> larger than around 1mm are usually on an imperial grid
> > while things with
> > >> pitches smaller than 1mm are usually on a metric grid.
> > > Yes, I have noticed smaller pitch items tending towards
> > metric grid.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Este email foi escaneado pelo Avast antivírus.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list
> > archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu

[IVP]

> Yes, I have noticed smaller pitch items tending towards metric grid

I got caught out recently with a style of PCB connector, accidentally
entering the wrong product code. It comes in both 2.5mm/2.54 (and
5/5.08) versions. The last one to go on the board was a bit of a
squeeze

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Which is what I was trying to say....

The trend is that these types of things are resolving themselves toward
metric.

Any 'new' packages developed tend to be on a metric grid. Older ones are
on the imperial grid. I see a lot more 1mm and 2mm pitch headers than I
used to. I also note that almost all of the smallest parts (as you noted)
are now on metric grids.

As the older parts/packages die out, the system will eventually transition
to mostly-metric.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:41 AM, peter green <***@p10link.net> wrote:

> On 02/10/17 08:36, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
> > Same for a lot of the other industries. About he only things we're
> still
> > using english units for are things which are very hard to change, and are
> > actually things which are still used globally in their english form. For
> > instance, IC and connector pitches are largely still english based,
>
> I wish.
>
> Unfortunately it seems that half your components are on a metric grid and
> half of them are on an imperial grid. As a rule of thumb things with
> pitches larger than around 1mm are usually on an imperial grid while things
> with pitches smaller than 1mm are usually on a metric grid.
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>



--
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: [phone] | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
***@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Chris McSweeny]

On 2 Oct 2017 14:41, "peter green" <***@p10link.net> wrote:

Unfortunately it seems that half your components are on a metric grid and
half of them are on an imperial grid. As a rule of thumb things with
pitches larger than around 1mm are usually on an imperial grid while things
with pitches smaller than 1mm are usually on a metric grid.


Is that really an issue? Clearly 2.5mm pitch is a bit silly being so close
to the existing standard, but there isn't a standard imperial pitch for
smaller sizes, so no risk of confusion. As I mentioned before though,
officially everything is specified in metric pitch, it's just that for some
components and boards that pitch is 2.54mm (or multiples of that) - I don't
see the same issues with unit conversion as in other areas as if you're
designing a PCB then your layout program just has all the pitches and sizes
specified in mm.

Chris
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[peter green]

On 03/10/17 11:07, Chris McSweeny wrote:
> On 2 Oct 2017 14:41, "peter green" <***@p10link.net> wrote:
>
> >Unfortunately it seems that half your components are on a metric grid and
> >half of them are on an imperial grid. As a rule of thumb things with
> >pitches larger than around 1mm are usually on an imperial grid while things
> >with pitches smaller than 1mm are usually on a metric grid.
>
>
> Is that really an issue? Clearly 2.5mm pitch is a bit silly being so close
> to the existing standard, but there isn't a standard imperial pitch for
> smaller sizes, so no risk of confusion. As I mentioned before though,
> officially everything is specified in metric pitch, it's just that for some
> components and boards that pitch is 2.54mm (or multiples of that) - I don't
> see the same issues with unit conversion as in other areas as if you're
> designing a PCB then your layout program just has all the pitches and sizes
> specified in mm.
It's not a showstopper but it's annoying. It means that unless you choose a really tiny grid size half your component pads will be off grid.
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On 24 September 2017 at 16:35, William Westfield <***@mac.com> wrote:

> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
> >> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there :)
>
> If the US is going to get singled out as the only country that hasn’t
> converted to metric, then surely the relevant “gallon” is a “US Gallon”,
> which is only about 8lb?
>

​The 'almost metric" Imperial 1 gallon of water = 10.0000000 lbf (under
specified conditions) ​
versus the US "about 8 pounds" gives a fair pointer to which of the two
systems has gang (even more) aglae.

Hoots mon,

Russell
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at

[Byron Jeff]

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:51:04PM +0100, Chris McSweeny wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:33 PM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
> >
>
> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there :)

I've been working in these units for some thermal storage plans. It is
a bit off.

1 gallon ~ 8.34 lbs.
There are ~ 7.48 gallons in a cubic foot.
So there's just about 62.4 lbs per 1 cubic foot of water
1 BTU heats 1 lb of water 1 degree F.

I'm planning on a 6x6x4 ft insulated primary tank. That's 144 c.f. that'll
weigh just shy of 9000 lbs (4.5 tons).

My plan is to use it for both heat storage in the winter and ice
storage in the summer. Using a 60 degree F range from 135 to 75 the tank
can store 9000 lbs * 60 BTU/lb -> 540000 BTU. Ice storage is even better
because the latent heat of fusion, which is the amount of heat that must be
added to melt 32 degree F ice to 32 degree F water is 144 btu/lb. So in
addition to the useful range of 32 degrees F to 62 degrees F of 270000 BTU
there's additional storage of 9000 * 144 -> 1296000 BTU available for
cooling in the summer.

My interest is exploiting the time of use electric rates. Here in Georgia,
Georgia Power has a special overnight rate of 0.0141 USD per kwh on their
EV charging time of use plan. Covers the entire house along with charging
the EV. Since each kwh converts to about 3412 BTU, it would take 459 kwh
(plus the efficiency overhead) to completely freeze the tank from 62 degree
water. At the overnight rate it would cost a bit more than $6 USD.

The ice would be needed because the cost tradeoff is the peak electricity
price of 0.205 USD, nearly 15 times the overnight cost.

Aren't conversions fun?!

BAJ

>
> Chris
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
Byron A. Jeff
Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology
College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Clayton State University
http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[John Gardner]

...Life is complex (it comprises of real and imaginary parts).

Which would'nt be so bad, if people agreed on which was which.

They don't.


On 9/22/17, Byron Jeff <***@clayton.edu> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:51:04PM +0100, Chris McSweeny wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:33 PM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
>> >
>>
>> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there :)
>
> I've been working in these units for some thermal storage plans. It is
> a bit off.
>
> 1 gallon ~ 8.34 lbs.
> There are ~ 7.48 gallons in a cubic foot.
> So there's just about 62.4 lbs per 1 cubic foot of water
> 1 BTU heats 1 lb of water 1 degree F.
>
> I'm planning on a 6x6x4 ft insulated primary tank. That's 144 c.f. that'll
> weigh just shy of 9000 lbs (4.5 tons).
>
> My plan is to use it for both heat storage in the winter and ice
> storage in the summer. Using a 60 degree F range from 135 to 75 the tank
> can store 9000 lbs * 60 BTU/lb -> 540000 BTU. Ice storage is even better
> because the latent heat of fusion, which is the amount of heat that must be
> added to melt 32 degree F ice to 32 degree F water is 144 btu/lb. So in
> addition to the useful range of 32 degrees F to 62 degrees F of 270000 BTU
> there's additional storage of 9000 * 144 -> 1296000 BTU available for
> cooling in the summer.
>
> My interest is exploiting the time of use electric rates. Here in Georgia,
> Georgia Power has a special overnight rate of 0.0141 USD per kwh on their
> EV charging time of use plan. Covers the entire house along with charging
> the EV. Since each kwh converts to about 3412 BTU, it would take 459 kwh
> (plus the efficiency overhead) to completely freeze the tank from 62 degree
> water. At the overnight rate it would cost a bit more than $6 USD.
>
> The ice would be needed because the cost tradeoff is the peak electricity
> price of 0.205 USD, nearly 15 times the overnight cost.
>
> Aren't conversions fun?!
>
> BAJ
>
>>
>> Chris
>> --
>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> View/change your membership options at
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
> --
> Byron A. Jeff
> Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information
> Technology
> College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
> Clayton State University
> http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

It's easy

LIFE = Real +jImaginary

If you square both parts, the one which produces negative results was the
imaginary one.

____________________

Aside:

E = mC^2 ... 1
E= 0.5mV^2. ... 2
M = M0/(sqrt(1-V^2/C^2) ... 3

>From 2 & 3 graph E from 0 to say 10 x C.
If you have trouble with jM or -M terms assume it'll come right in the
engineering [tm].

E rises to infinity at C then FALLS to some V at about 2 or 3 C then rises
again towards infinity.
For the energy levels from C to say 3C there are the same energy levels for
V's below C.
ie above a certain V<C there is a corresponding CV > C with the same
energy level.

IF [tm[tm[tm]]] you can tunnel at ~= constant energy you can "tunnel" past
lightspeed.

Danger Will Robinson:

To increase V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
REDUCE energy.
To decrease V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
INCREASE energy.

Above the inv]flection speed more energy = more velocity.

You may be able to get into a situation where you do not have enough energy
to make the jump back to < C.
Tachyonic forever.


R

To


Note that there is a V < C where



On 23 September 2017 at 11:01, John Gardner <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> ...Life is complex (it comprises of real and imaginary parts).
>
> Which would'nt be so bad, if people agreed on which was which.
>
> They don't.
>
>
> On 9/22/17, Byron Jeff <***@clayton.edu> wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:51:04PM +0100, Chris McSweeny wrote:
> >> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:33 PM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
> >> >
> >>
> >> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there :)
> >
> > I've been working in these units for some thermal storage plans. It is
> > a bit off.
> >
> > 1 gallon ~ 8.34 lbs.
> > There are ~ 7.48 gallons in a cubic foot.
> > So there's just about 62.4 lbs per 1 cubic foot of water
> > 1 BTU heats 1 lb of water 1 degree F.
> >
> > I'm planning on a 6x6x4 ft insulated primary tank. That's 144 c.f.
> that'll
> > weigh just shy of 9000 lbs (4.5 tons).
> >
> > My plan is to use it for both heat storage in the winter and ice
> > storage in the summer. Using a 60 degree F range from 135 to 75 the tank
> > can store 9000 lbs * 60 BTU/lb -> 540000 BTU. Ice storage is even better
> > because the latent heat of fusion, which is the amount of heat that must
> be
> > added to melt 32 degree F ice to 32 degree F water is 144 btu/lb. So in
> > addition to the useful range of 32 degrees F to 62 degrees F of 270000
> BTU
> > there's additional storage of 9000 * 144 -> 1296000 BTU available for
> > cooling in the summer.
> >
> > My interest is exploiting the time of use electric rates. Here in
> Georgia,
> > Georgia Power has a special overnight rate of 0.0141 USD per kwh on their
> > EV charging time of use plan. Covers the entire house along with charging
> > the EV. Since each kwh converts to about 3412 BTU, it would take 459 kwh
> > (plus the efficiency overhead) to completely freeze the tank from 62
> degree
> > water. At the overnight rate it would cost a bit more than $6 USD.
> >
> > The ice would be needed because the cost tradeoff is the peak electricity
> > price of 0.205 USD, nearly 15 times the overnight cost.
> >
> > Aren't conversions fun?!
> >
> > BAJ
> >
> >>
> >> Chris
> >> --
> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> >> View/change your membership options at
> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
> > --
> > Byron A. Jeff
> > Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information
> > Technology
> > College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
> > Clayton State University
> > http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[John Gardner]

I assume "jimaginery" was a Freudian slip? "8)

...


On 9/22/17, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's easy
>
> LIFE = Real +jImaginary
>
> If you square both parts, the one which produces negative results was the
> imaginary one.
>
> ____________________
>
> Aside:
>
> E = mC^2 ... 1
> E= 0.5mV^2. ... 2
> M = M0/(sqrt(1-V^2/C^2) ... 3
>
> >From 2 & 3 graph E from 0 to say 10 x C.
> If you have trouble with jM or -M terms assume it'll come right in the
> engineering [tm].
>
> E rises to infinity at C then FALLS to some V at about 2 or 3 C then rises
> again towards infinity.
> For the energy levels from C to say 3C there are the same energy levels for
> V's below C.
> ie above a certain V<C there is a corresponding CV > C with the same
> energy level.
>
> IF [tm[tm[tm]]] you can tunnel at ~= constant energy you can "tunnel" past
> lightspeed.
>
> Danger Will Robinson:
>
> To increase V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
> REDUCE energy.
> To decrease V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
> INCREASE energy.
>
> Above the inv]flection speed more energy = more velocity.
>
> You may be able to get into a situation where you do not have enough energy
> to make the jump back to < C.
> Tachyonic forever.
>
>
> R
>
> To
>
>
> Note that there is a V < C where
>
>
>
> On 23 September 2017 at 11:01, John Gardner <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ...Life is complex (it comprises of real and imaginary parts).
>>
>> Which would'nt be so bad, if people agreed on which was which.
>>
>> They don't.
>>
>>
>> On 9/22/17, Byron Jeff <***@clayton.edu> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:51:04PM +0100, Chris McSweeny wrote:
>> >> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:33 PM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there :)
>> >
>> > I've been working in these units for some thermal storage plans. It is
>> > a bit off.
>> >
>> > 1 gallon ~ 8.34 lbs.
>> > There are ~ 7.48 gallons in a cubic foot.
>> > So there's just about 62.4 lbs per 1 cubic foot of water
>> > 1 BTU heats 1 lb of water 1 degree F.
>> >
>> > I'm planning on a 6x6x4 ft insulated primary tank. That's 144 c.f.
>> that'll
>> > weigh just shy of 9000 lbs (4.5 tons).
>> >
>> > My plan is to use it for both heat storage in the winter and ice
>> > storage in the summer. Using a 60 degree F range from 135 to 75 the
>> > tank
>> > can store 9000 lbs * 60 BTU/lb -> 540000 BTU. Ice storage is even
>> > better
>> > because the latent heat of fusion, which is the amount of heat that
>> > must
>> be
>> > added to melt 32 degree F ice to 32 degree F water is 144 btu/lb. So in
>> > addition to the useful range of 32 degrees F to 62 degrees F of 270000
>> BTU
>> > there's additional storage of 9000 * 144 -> 1296000 BTU available for
>> > cooling in the summer.
>> >
>> > My interest is exploiting the time of use electric rates. Here in
>> Georgia,
>> > Georgia Power has a special overnight rate of 0.0141 USD per kwh on
>> > their
>> > EV charging time of use plan. Covers the entire house along with
>> > charging
>> > the EV. Since each kwh converts to about 3412 BTU, it would take 459
>> > kwh
>> > (plus the efficiency overhead) to completely freeze the tank from 62
>> degree
>> > water. At the overnight rate it would cost a bit more than $6 USD.
>> >
>> > The ice would be needed because the cost tradeoff is the peak
>> > electricity
>> > price of 0.205 USD, nearly 15 times the overnight cost.
>> >
>> > Aren't conversions fun?!
>> >
>> > BAJ
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Chris
>> >> --
>> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> >> View/change your membership options at
>> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >
>> > --
>> > Byron A. Jeff
>> > Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information
>> > Technology
>> > College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
>> > Clayton State University
>> > http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
>> > --
>> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> > View/change your membership options at
>> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >
>> --
>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> View/change your membership options at
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On 23 September 2017 at 11:44, John Gardner <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> I assume "jimaginery" was a Freudian slip? "8)
>
>
​No :-)

A = B + jC

​



> ...
>
>
> On 9/22/17, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's easy
> >
> > LIFE = Real +jImaginary
> >
> > If you square both parts, the one which produces negative results was the
> > imaginary one.
> >
> > ____________________
> >
> > Aside:
> >
> > E = mC^2 ... 1
> > E= 0.5mV^2. ... 2
> > M = M0/(sqrt(1-V^2/C^2) ... 3
> >
> > >From 2 & 3 graph E from 0 to say 10 x C.
> > If you have trouble with jM or -M terms assume it'll come right in the
> > engineering [tm].
> >
> > E rises to infinity at C then FALLS to some V at about 2 or 3 C then
> rises
> > again towards infinity.
> > For the energy levels from C to say 3C there are the same energy levels
> for
> > V's below C.
> > ie above a certain V<C there is a corresponding CV > C with the same
> > energy level.
> >
> > IF [tm[tm[tm]]] you can tunnel at ~= constant energy you can "tunnel"
> past
> > lightspeed.
> >
> > Danger Will Robinson:
> >
> > To increase V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
> > REDUCE energy.
> > To decrease V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
> > INCREASE energy.
> >
> > Above the inv]flection speed more energy = more velocity.
> >
> > You may be able to get into a situation where you do not have enough
> energy
> > to make the jump back to < C.
> > Tachyonic forever.
> >
> >
> > R
> >
> > To
> >
> >
> > Note that there is a V < C where
> >
> >
> >
> > On 23 September 2017 at 11:01, John Gardner <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> ...Life is complex (it comprises of real and imaginary parts).
> >>
> >> Which would'nt be so bad, if people agreed on which was which.
> >>
> >> They don't.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/22/17, Byron Jeff <***@clayton.edu> wrote:
> >> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:51:04PM +0100, Chris McSweeny wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:33 PM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there :)
> >> >
> >> > I've been working in these units for some thermal storage plans. It is
> >> > a bit off.
> >> >
> >> > 1 gallon ~ 8.34 lbs.
> >> > There are ~ 7.48 gallons in a cubic foot.
> >> > So there's just about 62.4 lbs per 1 cubic foot of water
> >> > 1 BTU heats 1 lb of water 1 degree F.
> >> >
> >> > I'm planning on a 6x6x4 ft insulated primary tank. That's 144 c.f.
> >> that'll
> >> > weigh just shy of 9000 lbs (4.5 tons).
> >> >
> >> > My plan is to use it for both heat storage in the winter and ice
> >> > storage in the summer. Using a 60 degree F range from 135 to 75 the
> >> > tank
> >> > can store 9000 lbs * 60 BTU/lb -> 540000 BTU. Ice storage is even
> >> > better
> >> > because the latent heat of fusion, which is the amount of heat that
> >> > must
> >> be
> >> > added to melt 32 degree F ice to 32 degree F water is 144 btu/lb. So
> in
> >> > addition to the useful range of 32 degrees F to 62 degrees F of 270000
> >> BTU
> >> > there's additional storage of 9000 * 144 -> 1296000 BTU available for
> >> > cooling in the summer.
> >> >
> >> > My interest is exploiting the time of use electric rates. Here in
> >> Georgia,
> >> > Georgia Power has a special overnight rate of 0.0141 USD per kwh on
> >> > their
> >> > EV charging time of use plan. Covers the entire house along with
> >> > charging
> >> > the EV. Since each kwh converts to about 3412 BTU, it would take 459
> >> > kwh
> >> > (plus the efficiency overhead) to completely freeze the tank from 62
> >> degree
> >> > water. At the overnight rate it would cost a bit more than $6 USD.
> >> >
> >> > The ice would be needed because the cost tradeoff is the peak
> >> > electricity
> >> > price of 0.205 USD, nearly 15 times the overnight cost.
> >> >
> >> > Aren't conversions fun?!
> >> >
> >> > BAJ
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Chris
> >> >> --
> >> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> >> >> View/change your membership options at
> >> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Byron A. Jeff
> >> > Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information
> >> > Technology
> >> > College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
> >> > Clayton State University
> >> > http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
> >> > --
> >> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> >> > View/change your membership options at
> >> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >> >
> >> --
> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> >> View/change your membership options at
> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >>
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/p

[John Gardner]

As long as you're sure... "8)

...


On 9/22/17, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 23 September 2017 at 11:44, John Gardner <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I assume "jimaginery" was a Freudian slip? "8)
>>
>>
> ​No :-)
>
> A = B + jC
>
> ​
>
>
>
>> ...
>>
>>
>> On 9/22/17, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > It's easy
>> >
>> > LIFE = Real +jImaginary
>> >
>> > If you square both parts, the one which produces negative results was
>> > the
>> > imaginary one.
>> >
>> > ____________________
>> >
>> > Aside:
>> >
>> > E = mC^2 ... 1
>> > E= 0.5mV^2. ... 2
>> > M = M0/(sqrt(1-V^2/C^2) ... 3
>> >
>> > >From 2 & 3 graph E from 0 to say 10 x C.
>> > If you have trouble with jM or -M terms assume it'll come right in the
>> > engineering [tm].
>> >
>> > E rises to infinity at C then FALLS to some V at about 2 or 3 C then
>> rises
>> > again towards infinity.
>> > For the energy levels from C to say 3C there are the same energy levels
>> for
>> > V's below C.
>> > ie above a certain V<C there is a corresponding CV > C with the same
>> > energy level.
>> >
>> > IF [tm[tm[tm]]] you can tunnel at ~= constant energy you can "tunnel"
>> past
>> > lightspeed.
>> >
>> > Danger Will Robinson:
>> >
>> > To increase V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
>> > REDUCE energy.
>> > To decrease V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
>> > INCREASE energy.
>> >
>> > Above the inv]flection speed more energy = more velocity.
>> >
>> > You may be able to get into a situation where you do not have enough
>> energy
>> > to make the jump back to < C.
>> > Tachyonic forever.
>> >
>> >
>> > R
>> >
>> > To
>> >
>> >
>> > Note that there is a V < C where
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 23 September 2017 at 11:01, John Gardner <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> ...Life is complex (it comprises of real and imaginary parts).
>> >>
>> >> Which would'nt be so bad, if people agreed on which was which.
>> >>
>> >> They don't.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 9/22/17, Byron Jeff <***@clayton.edu> wrote:
>> >> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:51:04PM +0100, Chris McSweeny wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:33 PM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there :)
>> >> >
>> >> > I've been working in these units for some thermal storage plans. It
>> >> > is
>> >> > a bit off.
>> >> >
>> >> > 1 gallon ~ 8.34 lbs.
>> >> > There are ~ 7.48 gallons in a cubic foot.
>> >> > So there's just about 62.4 lbs per 1 cubic foot of water
>> >> > 1 BTU heats 1 lb of water 1 degree F.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm planning on a 6x6x4 ft insulated primary tank. That's 144 c.f.
>> >> that'll
>> >> > weigh just shy of 9000 lbs (4.5 tons).
>> >> >
>> >> > My plan is to use it for both heat storage in the winter and ice
>> >> > storage in the summer. Using a 60 degree F range from 135 to 75 the
>> >> > tank
>> >> > can store 9000 lbs * 60 BTU/lb -> 540000 BTU. Ice storage is even
>> >> > better
>> >> > because the latent heat of fusion, which is the amount of heat that
>> >> > must
>> >> be
>> >> > added to melt 32 degree F ice to 32 degree F water is 144 btu/lb. So
>> in
>> >> > addition to the useful range of 32 degrees F to 62 degrees F of
>> >> > 270000
>> >> BTU
>> >> > there's additional storage of 9000 * 144 -> 1296000 BTU available for
>> >> > cooling in the summer.
>> >> >
>> >> > My interest is exploiting the time of use electric rates. Here in
>> >> Georgia,
>> >> > Georgia Power has a special overnight rate of 0.0141 USD per kwh on
>> >> > their
>> >> > EV charging time of use plan. Covers the entire house along with
>> >> > charging
>> >> > the EV. Since each kwh converts to about 3412 BTU, it would take 459
>> >> > kwh
>> >> > (plus the efficiency overhead) to completely freeze the tank from 62
>> >> degree
>> >> > water. At the overnight rate it would cost a bit more than $6 USD.
>> >> >
>> >> > The ice would be needed because the cost tradeoff is the peak
>> >> > electricity
>> >> > price of 0.205 USD, nearly 15 times the overnight cost.
>> >> >
>> >> > Aren't conversions fun?!
>> >> >
>> >> > BAJ
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Chris
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> >> >> View/change your membership options at
>> >> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Byron A. Jeff
>> >> > Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information
>> >> > Technology
>> >> > College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
>> >> > Clayton State University
>> >> > http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
>> >> > --
>> >> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> >> > View/change your membership options at
>> >> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >> >
>> >> --
>> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> >> View/change your membership options at
>> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >>
>> > --
>> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> > View/change your membership options at
>> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >
>> --
>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> View/change your membership options at
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/pi

[RussellMc]

I assume you got the pun.
But, maybe not.
And, I may well be missing something.

Complex numbers: A + jB as in life (pun, groans)(sorry)

R


On 23 September 2017 at 11:56, John Gardner <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> As long as you're sure... "8)
>
> ...
>
>
> On 9/22/17, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 23 September 2017 at 11:44, John Gardner <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I assume "jimaginery" was a Freudian slip? "8)
> >>
> >>
> > ​No :-)
> >
> > A = B + jC
> >
> > ​
> >
> >
> >
> >> ...
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/22/17, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > It's easy
> >> >
> >> > LIFE = Real +jImaginary
> >> >
> >> > If you square both parts, the one which produces negative results was
> >> > the
> >> > imaginary one.
> >> >
> >> > ____________________
> >> >
> >> > Aside:
> >> >
> >> > E = mC^2 ... 1
> >> > E= 0.5mV^2. ... 2
> >> > M = M0/(sqrt(1-V^2/C^2) ... 3
> >> >
> >> > >From 2 & 3 graph E from 0 to say 10 x C.
> >> > If you have trouble with jM or -M terms assume it'll come right in the
> >> > engineering [tm].
> >> >
> >> > E rises to infinity at C then FALLS to some V at about 2 or 3 C then
> >> rises
> >> > again towards infinity.
> >> > For the energy levels from C to say 3C there are the same energy
> levels
> >> for
> >> > V's below C.
> >> > ie above a certain V<C there is a corresponding CV > C with the same
> >> > energy level.
> >> >
> >> > IF [tm[tm[tm]]] you can tunnel at ~= constant energy you can "tunnel"
> >> past
> >> > lightspeed.
> >> >
> >> > Danger Will Robinson:
> >> >
> >> > To increase V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
> >> > REDUCE energy.
> >> > To decrease V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
> >> > INCREASE energy.
> >> >
> >> > Above the inv]flection speed more energy = more velocity.
> >> >
> >> > You may be able to get into a situation where you do not have enough
> >> energy
> >> > to make the jump back to < C.
> >> > Tachyonic forever.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > R
> >> >
> >> > To
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Note that there is a V < C where
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 23 September 2017 at 11:01, John Gardner <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> ...Life is complex (it comprises of real and imaginary parts).
> >> >>
> >> >> Which would'nt be so bad, if people agreed on which was which.
> >> >>
> >> >> They don't.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 9/22/17, Byron Jeff <***@clayton.edu> wrote:
> >> >> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:51:04PM +0100, Chris McSweeny wrote:
> >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:33 PM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there
> :)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I've been working in these units for some thermal storage plans. It
> >> >> > is
> >> >> > a bit off.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 1 gallon ~ 8.34 lbs.
> >> >> > There are ~ 7.48 gallons in a cubic foot.
> >> >> > So there's just about 62.4 lbs per 1 cubic foot of water
> >> >> > 1 BTU heats 1 lb of water 1 degree F.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'm planning on a 6x6x4 ft insulated primary tank. That's 144 c.f.
> >> >> that'll
> >> >> > weigh just shy of 9000 lbs (4.5 tons).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My plan is to use it for both heat storage in the winter and ice
> >> >> > storage in the summer. Using a 60 degree F range from 135 to 75 the
> >> >> > tank
> >> >> > can store 9000 lbs * 60 BTU/lb -> 540000 BTU. Ice storage is even
> >> >> > better
> >> >> > because the latent heat of fusion, which is the amount of heat that
> >> >> > must
> >> >> be
> >> >> > added to melt 32 degree F ice to 32 degree F water is 144 btu/lb.
> So
> >> in
> >> >> > addition to the useful range of 32 degrees F to 62 degrees F of
> >> >> > 270000
> >> >> BTU
> >> >> > there's additional storage of 9000 * 144 -> 1296000 BTU available
> for
> >> >> > cooling in the summer.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My interest is exploiting the time of use electric rates. Here in
> >> >> Georgia,
> >> >> > Georgia Power has a special overnight rate of 0.0141 USD per kwh on
> >> >> > their
> >> >> > EV charging time of use plan. Covers the entire house along with
> >> >> > charging
> >> >> > the EV. Since each kwh converts to about 3412 BTU, it would take
> 459
> >> >> > kwh
> >> >> > (plus the efficiency overhead) to completely freeze the tank from
> 62
> >> >> degree
> >> >> > water. At the overnight rate it would cost a bit more than $6 USD.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The ice would be needed because the cost tradeoff is the peak
> >> >> > electricity
> >> >> > price of 0.205 USD, nearly 15 times the overnight cost.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Aren't conversions fun?!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > BAJ
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Chris
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> >> >> >> View/change your membership options at
> >> >> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Byron A. Jeff
> >> >> > Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information
> >> >> > Technology
> >> >> > College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
> >> >> > Clayton State University
> >> >> > http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> >> >> > View/change your membership options at
> >> >> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >> >> >
> >> >> --
> >> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> >> >> View/change your membership options at
> >> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >> >>
> >> > --
> >> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> >> > View/change your membership options at
> >> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >> >
> >> --
> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> >> View/change your membership options at
> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >>
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.e

[RussellMc]

I realised that you MAY be wanting REAL + iImaginary.
I think EEs tend to use a + jb for electronics stuff and more general maths
a + ib or ... ?


On 23 September 2017 at 12:16, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> I assume you got the pun.
> But, maybe not.
> And, I may well be missing something.
>
> Complex numbers: A + jB as in life (pun, groans)(sorry)
>
> R
>
>
> On 23 September 2017 at 11:56, John Gardner <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As long as you're sure... "8)
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>> On 9/22/17, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 23 September 2017 at 11:44, John Gardner <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I assume "jimaginery" was a Freudian slip? "8)
>> >>
>> >>
>> > ​No :-)
>> >
>> > A = B + jC
>> >
>> > ​
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 9/22/17, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > It's easy
>> >> >
>> >> > LIFE = Real +jImaginary
>> >> >
>> >> > If you square both parts, the one which produces negative results was
>> >> > the
>> >> > imaginary one.
>> >> >
>> >> > ____________________
>> >> >
>> >> > Aside:
>> >> >
>> >> > E = mC^2 ... 1
>> >> > E= 0.5mV^2. ... 2
>> >> > M = M0/(sqrt(1-V^2/C^2) ... 3
>> >> >
>> >> > >From 2 & 3 graph E from 0 to say 10 x C.
>> >> > If you have trouble with jM or -M terms assume it'll come right in
>> the
>> >> > engineering [tm].
>> >> >
>> >> > E rises to infinity at C then FALLS to some V at about 2 or 3 C then
>> >> rises
>> >> > again towards infinity.
>> >> > For the energy levels from C to say 3C there are the same energy
>> levels
>> >> for
>> >> > V's below C.
>> >> > ie above a certain V<C there is a corresponding CV > C with the same
>> >> > energy level.
>> >> >
>> >> > IF [tm[tm[tm]]] you can tunnel at ~= constant energy you can "tunnel"
>> >> past
>> >> > lightspeed.
>> >> >
>> >> > Danger Will Robinson:
>> >> >
>> >> > To increase V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
>> >> > REDUCE energy.
>> >> > To decrease V > C below the minimum energy inflection point you must
>> >> > INCREASE energy.
>> >> >
>> >> > Above the inv]flection speed more energy = more velocity.
>> >> >
>> >> > You may be able to get into a situation where you do not have enough
>> >> energy
>> >> > to make the jump back to < C.
>> >> > Tachyonic forever.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > R
>> >> >
>> >> > To
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Note that there is a V < C where
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 23 September 2017 at 11:01, John Gardner <***@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> ...Life is complex (it comprises of real and imaginary parts).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Which would'nt be so bad, if people agreed on which was which.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> They don't.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 9/22/17, Byron Jeff <***@clayton.edu> wrote:
>> >> >> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:51:04PM +0100, Chris McSweeny wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:33 PM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com
>> >
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbf
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I suspect most people on this list would disagree with you there
>> :)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I've been working in these units for some thermal storage plans.
>> It
>> >> >> > is
>> >> >> > a bit off.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 1 gallon ~ 8.34 lbs.
>> >> >> > There are ~ 7.48 gallons in a cubic foot.
>> >> >> > So there's just about 62.4 lbs per 1 cubic foot of water
>> >> >> > 1 BTU heats 1 lb of water 1 degree F.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I'm planning on a 6x6x4 ft insulated primary tank. That's 144 c.f.
>> >> >> that'll
>> >> >> > weigh just shy of 9000 lbs (4.5 tons).
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > My plan is to use it for both heat storage in the winter and ice
>> >> >> > storage in the summer. Using a 60 degree F range from 135 to 75
>> the
>> >> >> > tank
>> >> >> > can store 9000 lbs * 60 BTU/lb -> 540000 BTU. Ice storage is even
>> >> >> > better
>> >> >> > because the latent heat of fusion, which is the amount of heat
>> that
>> >> >> > must
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> > added to melt 32 degree F ice to 32 degree F water is 144 btu/lb.
>> So
>> >> in
>> >> >> > addition to the useful range of 32 degrees F to 62 degrees F of
>> >> >> > 270000
>> >> >> BTU
>> >> >> > there's additional storage of 9000 * 144 -> 1296000 BTU available
>> for
>> >> >> > cooling in the summer.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > My interest is exploiting the time of use electric rates. Here in
>> >> >> Georgia,
>> >> >> > Georgia Power has a special overnight rate of 0.0141 USD per kwh
>> on
>> >> >> > their
>> >> >> > EV charging time of use plan. Covers the entire house along with
>> >> >> > charging
>> >> >> > the EV. Since each kwh converts to about 3412 BTU, it would take
>> 459
>> >> >> > kwh
>> >> >> > (plus the efficiency overhead) to completely freeze the tank from
>> 62
>> >> >> degree
>> >> >> > water. At the overnight rate it would cost a bit more than $6 USD.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The ice would be needed because the cost tradeoff is the peak
>> >> >> > electricity
>> >> >> > price of 0.205 USD, nearly 15 times the overnight cost.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Aren't conversions fun?!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > BAJ
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Chris
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> >> >> >> View/change your membership options at
>> >> >> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Byron A. Jeff
>> >> >> > Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and
>> Information
>> >> >> > Technology
>> >> >> > College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
>> >> >> > Clayton State University
>> >> >> > http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> >> >> > View/change your membership options at
>> >> >> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> >> >> View/change your membership options at
>> >> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >> >>
>> >> > --
>> >> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> >> > View/change your membership options at
>> >> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >> >
>> >> --
>> >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> >> View/change your membership options at
>> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >>
>> > --
>> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> > View/change your membership options at
>> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >
>>
>> --
>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> View/change your membership options at
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>
>
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailm

[IVP]

> LIFE = Real +jImaginary
>
> If you square both parts, the one which produces negative results was
> the imaginary one

Imaginary friends can be a negative influence. But then, so can real ones


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[a***@stfc.ac.uk]

> ...Life is complex (it comprises of real and imaginary parts).
>
> Which would'nt be so bad, if people agreed on which was which.
>
> They don't.

That is because some of us are at different phases of our life ... :)


--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[IVP]

>> but if I go to the timber yard and ask for 8ft of 2x4 they'll

Do you have a metric or imperial clothesline ?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[sd211]

>>The only one which matters is SI - that's the basis on which
anything scientific is done

There is definitely a trend towards that, but we are not there yet. An
example from my scientific life:
Concentration: SI unit - moles/L (molarity, or M)
widely used units: g/L, ug/mL, %(weight/weight), % (weight/volume), %
(volume/volume), for many biologically active substances - IU/mL
(international units), or units/mL, where unit is somewhat arbitrary defined
as enzyme activity. There are also units of molality, normality, partial
pressure etc.
Not all units are easily, or directly, re-calculatable to SI, especially
%-tile units, where calculation of %w/w to M depends on temperature and
sometimes composition of the solution. Pure joy!


It was an interesting discussion so far!

Sergey




--
Sent from: http://microcontrollers.2385.n7.nabble.com/MicroControllers-PIC-f3.html
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On 23 September 2017 at 08:36, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:

> >>The only one which matters is SI - that's the basis on which
> anything scientific is done
>
> There is definitely a trend towards that, but we are not there yet.
> ​ ...
>

​And, sometimes, fake units or close-to units can be useful.

Rocket performance in terms of thrust generated per fuel mass used per unit
time is expressed in seconds.​
eg LOX/RP1 ruins at about 350 lbf of thrust for one second per pound of
propellant.
Isp = 350/1 = 350 seconds.
EXCEPT that that's 350 lbf/1 lbm /s
which cancles top foot/s = velocity.
Which is another (and more correct)(but less intuitive) way of expressing
it.

Motor power = kg.m torque x RPM.
This is about 2% off the actual value but is immensely useful in practice.
The units are scrambled BUT it works because several constants happen to
"almost cancel".

R
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinf

[David C Brown]

;There is only one metric system in use internationally today, the SI
system which is international not French. Magnetic units are no more
difficult in SI than they are in FPS. Volume conversion is trivial. I
imperial gallon is 4.55 litres. One US gallon is 3.79 litres.

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

On 21 September 2017 at 22:13, Brooke Clarke <***@pacific.net> wrote:

> Hi:
>
> We have only one system:
> FPS Foot Pound Second - Power: Horsepower, Pressure: PSI, Magnetic field:
> Amp Turn/Inch
>
> There are many "metric systems". The fundamental system would be called
> "MGS" for Meter, Gram, Second but there is no
> such system instead there are the following systems:
> CGS -Centimeter Gram Second - Power: ergs/sec, Pressure: atmospheres,
> Magnetic field: gamma or gauss
> MKS - Meter Kilogram Second - Power: Watt (Joule/Sec), Pressure Pascal,
> Magnetic field: Tesla
> SI - International System of Units (French) - not sure about the
> relationship between MKS and SI, but that's just
> another one of the many metric systems.
>
> While metric is very handy for length and mass because of the ease of
> conversions inside those units, the nightmare of
> the magnetic and other unit differences between the various metric systems
> makes reading in any subject very difficult
> because you need to look up how to convert from one to the other. I can
> remember 2.54 mm/inch or 39.37inchs/meter and
> 28.3495 grams/ounce and from there get to the other length and mass units,
> but no way can anyone remember all the other
> conversions in the derived units.
>
> Even the volume conversion between metric and FPS causes problems:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider#Running_out_of_fuel
> http://mentalfloss.com/article/25845/quick-6-six-unit-conversion-disasters
>
> --
> Have Fun,
>
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> > Re: [TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[John Gardner]

...conversion is trivial...

Usually. And mixed units are sometimes useful... Gasp... :)

Back in the day compression ratio calculations on a duplex rule

were significantly abetted by the happy accident that the optimum

clearance between piston apogee & cylinder head (for many apps)

is in the range 1 - 1.5 mm, aka 40-60 thou...

Not really mixed units, I guess, but arranging graceful computation

used to be part of the Art...

...


for



On 9/21/17, David C Brown <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> ;There is only one metric system in use internationally today, the SI
> system which is international not French. Magnetic units are no more
> difficult in SI than they are in FPS. Volume conversion is trivial. I
> imperial gallon is 4.55 litres. One US gallon is 3.79 litres.
>
> __________________________________________
> David C Brown
> 43 Bings Road
> Whaley Bridge
> High Peak Phone: [phone]
> Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
> SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> <http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
>
>
>
> *Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
>
> On 21 September 2017 at 22:13, Brooke Clarke <***@pacific.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi:
>>
>> We have only one system:
>> FPS Foot Pound Second - Power: Horsepower, Pressure: PSI, Magnetic field:
>> Amp Turn/Inch
>>
>> There are many "metric systems". The fundamental system would be called
>> "MGS" for Meter, Gram, Second but there is no
>> such system instead there are the following systems:
>> CGS -Centimeter Gram Second - Power: ergs/sec, Pressure: atmospheres,
>> Magnetic field: gamma or gauss
>> MKS - Meter Kilogram Second - Power: Watt (Joule/Sec), Pressure Pascal,
>> Magnetic field: Tesla
>> SI - International System of Units (French) - not sure about the
>> relationship between MKS and SI, but that's just
>> another one of the many metric systems.
>>
>> While metric is very handy for length and mass because of the ease of
>> conversions inside those units, the nightmare of
>> the magnetic and other unit differences between the various metric
>> systems
>> makes reading in any subject very difficult
>> because you need to look up how to convert from one to the other. I can
>> remember 2.54 mm/inch or 39.37inchs/meter and
>> 28.3495 grams/ounce and from there get to the other length and mass
>> units,
>> but no way can anyone remember all the other
>> conversions in the derived units.
>>
>> Even the volume conversion between metric and FPS causes problems:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider#Running_out_of_fuel
>> http://mentalfloss.com/article/25845/quick-6-six-unit-conversion-disasters
>>
>> --
>> Have Fun,
>>
>> Brooke Clarke
>> http://www.PRC68.com
>> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> > Re: [TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US
>>
>> --
>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> View/change your membership options at
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Van Horn, David]

I was inspired by an XKCD comic to calculate my fuel consumption in terms of wire diameter.

22 ga.


--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Denny Esterline]

I find the measurement system debate to be much akin to the toilet paper
over or under debate.
In the end, I see two groups of people - those that want to fight about it
and those that wipe their backside and get on with life.
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[James Cameron]

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 01:29:56PM -0700, Denny Esterline wrote:
> I find the measurement system debate to be much akin to the toilet
> paper over or under debate.

Which really depends on which muscle groups and tendons are working,
combined with the learned behaviour, or preprogrammed moves, of the
neural network that passes through the motor cortex and ganglions.

> In the end, I see two groups of people - those that want to fight
> about it and those that wipe their backside and get on with life.

However, most humans have been trained to do that on their own, but a
measurement system is an intentional sharing.

I've heard there are engineers who will choose their own units. ;-)

My early introduction to this was the microfortnight, in the VMS
operating system TIMEPROMPTWAIT boot parameter.

--
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On 23 September 2017 at 09:03, James Cameron <***@laptop.org> wrote:


> I've heard there are engineers who will choose their own units. ;-)
>
> My early introduction to this was the microfortnight, in the VMS
> operating system TIMEPROMPTWAIT boot parameter.
>

​1.2096 second. (Or 1,209,600 uS)

Close enough to 1.2 or even 1.0 second to make it non-non-useful ​.

R
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailma

[John Ferrell]

If a fastener is really important SAE specs seem to be the only candidate.


On 9/22/2017 5:03 PM, James Cameron wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 01:29:56PM -0700, Denny Esterline wrote:
>> I find the measurement system debate to be much akin to the toilet
>> paper over or under debate.

--
John Ferrell W8CCW
Julian NC 27283
It is better to walk alone,
than with a crowd going the wrong direction.
--Diane Grant

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[John Ferrell]

Any tool that fits in the specs of more than one system is a poor fit in
both systems.


On 9/22/2017 5:03 PM, James Cameron wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 01:29:56PM -0700, Denny Esterline wrote:
>> I find the measurement system debate to be much akin to the toilet
>> paper over or under debate.

--
John Ferrell W8CCW
Julian NC 27283
It is better to walk alone,
than with a crowd going the wrong direction.
--Diane Grant

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Bob Blick]

Several gauges of toilet paper are cropping up. Particularly bothersome are the new, narrow-gauge rolls. Toilet paper manufacturers taking a cue from the airlines and their continuous seat-narrowing?

Cheerful regards,
Bob

________________________________________
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> on behalf of John Ferrell
Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 5:14 PM
To: ***@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US

Any tool that fits in the specs of more than one system is a poor fit in
both systems.


On 9/22/2017 5:03 PM, James Cameron wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 01:29:56PM -0700, Denny Esterline wrote:
>> I find the measurement system debate to be much akin to the toilet
>> paper over or under debate.
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[John Ferrell]

Metric fasteners seem to be intended to benefit the the mechanic that
never got the hang of thinking in fractions.


On 9/22/2017 5:03 PM, James Cameron wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 01:29:56PM -0700, Denny Esterline wrote:
>> I find the measurement system debate to be much akin to the toilet
>> paper over or under debate.

--
John Ferrell W8CCW
Julian NC 27283
It is better to walk alone,
than with a crowd going the wrong direction.
--Diane Grant

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Bob Blick]

Need to mention the difference between my German and Asian tools. Two competing metric systems.

Best regards,
Bob

________________________________________
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> on behalf of John Ferrell
Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 5:18 PM
To: ***@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US

Metric fasteners seem to be intended to benefit the the mechanic that
never got the hang of thinking in fractions.


--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On 2 October 2017 at 13:18, John Ferrell <***@triad.rr.com> wrote:

> Metric fasteners seem to be intended to benefit the the mechanic that
> never got the hang of thinking in fractions.
>

​Yes, them too. In addition to all the other users. ​
(That sounds like a USA'ian talking :-) ).

And, of course, they are still fractions.
Just decimal fractions rather than binary ones.
Maybe imperial fractions would look easier if expressed in base 2.
Maybe not :-).
1/2" = 0.1
1/4" = 0.01
5/16" = 0.0101

+/- 1 thou is really +/- about 1/1024th = +/- 0.000000001
Maybe you could use symbols for sub-powers of 2 just as we now use milli,
micro etc.
1 thou_1024 = 0.001 u
5/16th = 10.1m

Hey this imperial metric system is cool!
Ideal for the mechanic who wants to think in fractions :-).


Russell
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options

[Jean-Paul Louis]

Who needs fractions when you have Russell around.

Jean-Paul
N1JPL




> On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:28 PM, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2 October 2017 at 13:18, John Ferrell <***@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Metric fasteners seem to be intended to benefit the the mechanic that
>> never got the hang of thinking in fractions.
>>
>
> ​Yes, them too. In addition to all the other users. ​
> (That sounds like a USA'ian talking :-) ).
>
> And, of course, they are still fractions.
> Just decimal fractions rather than binary ones.
> Maybe imperial fractions would look easier if expressed in base 2.
> Maybe not :-).
> 1/2" = 0.1
> 1/4" = 0.01
> 5/16" = 0.0101
>
> +/- 1 thou is really +/- about 1/1024th = +/- 0.000000001
> Maybe you could use symbols for sub-powers of 2 just as we now use milli,
> micro etc.
> 1 thou_1024 = 0.001 u
> 5/16th = 10.1m
>
> Hey this imperial metric system is cool!
> Ideal for the mechanic who wants to think in fractions :-).
>
>
> Russell
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist




--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/l

[RussellMc]

On 2 October 2017 at 16:02, Jean-Paul Louis <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Who needs fractions when you have Russell around.
>

​Are you suggesting that I'm fractious? - or
Frictive? (some would agree).


Russell​
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://

[Jean-Paul Louis]

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 3:24 AM, RussellMc<***@gmail.com> wrote: On 2 October 2017 at 16:02, Jean-Paul Louis <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Who needs fractions when you have Russell around.
>

​Are you suggesting that I'm fractious? - or
Frictive? (some would agree).
Could it be both?

          Russell​
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
h

[RussellMc]

On 23 September 2017 at 08:29, Denny Esterline <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> I find the measurement system debate to be much akin to the toilet paper
> over or under debate.
> In the end, I see two groups of people - those that want to fight about it
> and those that wipe their backside and get on with life.


​Loo 1: Over, because my wife says so:

Loo 2: Under, because the ridge at the back jams the paper very effectively
if installed "over".


R
​
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options a

[Van Horn, David]

Under, because cat.

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of RussellMc
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 3:36 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [TECH] Pirates and no metric system in the US

On 23 September 2017 at 08:29, Denny Esterline <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> I find the measurement system debate to be much akin to the toilet
> paper over or under debate.
> In the end, I see two groups of people - those that want to fight
> about it and those that wipe their backside and get on with life.


​Loo 1: Over, because my wife says so:

Loo 2: Under, because the ridge at the back jams the paper very effectively if installed "over".


R
​
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.

[IVP]

> Under, because cat.

You too ?

I prefer over, so does the cat. The little dickens has no qualms
about covering the floor in TP when the fancy takes her

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On 23 September 2017 at 04:07, Van Horn, David <
***@backcountryaccess.com> wrote:

> I was inspired by an XKCD comic to calculate my fuel consumption in terms
> of wire diameter.
>
> 22 ga.
>

​As gauge is an inverse ​function of area then that works for
distance/fuel_volume eg miles/gallon or kilometres/litre
We used to use "per acre"

For fuel_volume/distance eg litres/100km or gallons/mile (eg D8 and King
Tiger)
Then any area will do.

eg 10l/100km (about 28.4 mpg) = 1 um^2

Conversely, 100 km/10l = 1,000,000 per square metre

Or as 10l/100km ~= 28.4 mpg,
1 mpg =~ 35200 nm^2

I wondered if this thread maybe should have reverted to [OT], but it seems
TECHnically educational enough to remain in TECH :-).


Russell





>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options

[Spehro]

That's impressively bad- 7-8 miles per US gallon. I get more like AWG 27-28.

It's a lot easier to calculate if you use l/100 km - just divide by 100 to get mm^2.

AWG = 36-19.5*log_92(x/1.2668) where x is fuel consumption in l/100 km

(Could be simplified a bit further)

Sent from a Microsoft, Android or Apple device
(Either mobile or desktop)

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Van Horn, David <***@backcountryaccess.com> wrote:
>
> I was inspired by an XKCD comic to calculate my fuel consumption in terms of wire diameter.
>
> 22 ga.
>
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist


--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist