[PIC] PIC programmer recommendation?

[Neil]

I've been having a frustrating experience with the Pickit 3
(intermittent and finnicky connection and programming issues for some
devices) which I've googled, but have not been able to resolve after
much tinkering with drivers, resistors, and registry settings. A brand
new second Pickit 3 gives me the same issues, and so does a new device
on a new PCB. So it's time to move on.
I really miss using the Pickit 2's, but they don't support the newer
devices.
Is there anything similar is size/cost that can program the newer
devices that any of you would recommend? FWIW, I have not faith in the
Pickit 4.

Cheers,
-Neil.

[Isaac M. Bavaresco]

Neil, I have had debugging problems with PIC Kit 3, but very seldom
programming issues.

The most frequent problem is related to the PIC Kit not being able to
supply power to the board. The solution it to power the board with a power
supply.

The second most common problem is due to cable and connector wear and tear.
When I start getting too many failures I cut the ends of the debugging
cable and fit new connectors.

Is this board of yours an already proven design? Sometimes poor board
design can lead to debugging failures.

The PIC Kit can behave erratically after being connected to the PC for a
long time when debugging, but just programming takes very little time. When
I suspect that the debugger is starting to misbehave I just unplug it,
close the IDE and start over.

Cheers,
Isaac

Post by Neil
I've been having a frustrating experience with the Pickit 3
(intermittent and finnicky connection and programming issues for some
devices) which I've googled, but have not been able to resolve after
much tinkering with drivers, resistors, and registry settings. A brand
new second Pickit 3 gives me the same issues, and so does a new device
on a new PCB. So it's time to move on.
I really miss using the Pickit 2's, but they don't support the newer
devices.
Is there anything similar is size/cost that can program the newer
devices that any of you would recommend? FWIW, I have not faith in the
Pickit 4.
Cheers,
-Neil.
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[Michael Johnston]

Hi I just picked up the new Icd4 from microchip direct on sale a little over a month ago and it works great for me! Michael Johnston

Sent from my iPhone

Post by Isaac M. Bavaresco
Neil, I have had debugging problems with PIC Kit 3, but very seldom
programming issues.
The most frequent problem is related to the PIC Kit not being able to
supply power to the board. The solution it to power the board with a power
supply.
The second most common problem is due to cable and connector wear and tear.
When I start getting too many failures I cut the ends of the debugging
cable and fit new connectors.
Is this board of yours an already proven design? Sometimes poor board
design can lead to debugging failures.
The PIC Kit can behave erratically after being connected to the PC for a
long time when debugging, but just programming takes very little time. When
I suspect that the debugger is starting to misbehave I just unplug it,
close the IDE and start over.
Cheers,
Isaac

Post by Neil
I've been having a frustrating experience with the Pickit 3
(intermittent and finnicky connection and programming issues for some
devices) which I've googled, but have not been able to resolve after
much tinkering with drivers, resistors, and registry settings. A brand
new second Pickit 3 gives me the same issues, and so does a new device
on a new PCB. So it's time to move on.
I really miss using the Pickit 2's, but they don't support the newer
devices.
Is there anything similar is size/cost that can program the newer
devices that any of you would recommend? FWIW, I have not faith in the
Pickit 4.
Cheers,
-Neil.
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[Chris Roper]

I second what Trevor posted.
I have been using the PICKit+ software for a few months now on 2xPICKit 2's
and a PICkit 3.
I have an ICD 3 for debugging but have rarely found a use for it but with
renewed lease of life from PICKit+ my 3 PICKit programmers are going strong.

I disagree with Trevor's only 8 devices statement, however, the update that
was sent out this week supports Hundreds of devices including PIC16, PIC18,
PIC24, DSPIC and PIC32.
If you need specific support post the device list and I will look them up
for you.

Cheers
Chris

Post by Michael Johnston
Hi I just picked up the new Icd4 from microchip direct on sale a little
over a month ago and it works great for me! Michael Johnston
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 19, 2018, at 9:41 PM, Isaac M. Bavaresco <
Neil, I have had debugging problems with PIC Kit 3, but very seldom
programming issues.
The most frequent problem is related to the PIC Kit not being able to
supply power to the board. The solution it to power the board with a

power

supply.
The second most common problem is due to cable and connector wear and

tear.

When I start getting too many failures I cut the ends of the debugging
cable and fit new connectors.
Is this board of yours an already proven design? Sometimes poor board
design can lead to debugging failures.
The PIC Kit can behave erratically after being connected to the PC for a
long time when debugging, but just programming takes very little time.

When

I suspect that the debugger is starting to misbehave I just unplug it,
close the IDE and start over.
Cheers,
Isaac

Post by Neil
I've been having a frustrating experience with the Pickit 3
(intermittent and finnicky connection and programming issues for some
devices) which I've googled, but have not been able to resolve after
much tinkering with drivers, resistors, and registry settings. A brand
new second Pickit 3 gives me the same issues, and so does a new device
on a new PCB. So it's time to move on.
I really miss using the Pickit 2's, but they don't support the newer
devices.
Is there anything similar is size/cost that can program the newer
devices that any of you would recommend? FWIW, I have not faith in the
Pickit 4.
Cheers,
-Neil.
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[Neil]

Do you have any comparison to the Pickit3?

Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Michael Johnston
Hi I just picked up the new Icd4 from microchip direct on sale a little over a month ago and it works great for me! Michael Johnston
Sent from my iPhone

Post by Isaac M. Bavaresco
Neil, I have had debugging problems with PIC Kit 3, but very seldom
programming issues.
The most frequent problem is related to the PIC Kit not being able to
supply power to the board. The solution it to power the board with a power
supply.
The second most common problem is due to cable and connector wear and tear.
When I start getting too many failures I cut the ends of the debugging
cable and fit new connectors.
Is this board of yours an already proven design? Sometimes poor board
design can lead to debugging failures.
The PIC Kit can behave erratically after being connected to the PC for a
long time when debugging, but just programming takes very little time. When
I suspect that the debugger is starting to misbehave I just unplug it,
close the IDE and start over.
Cheers,
Isaac

Post by Neil
I've been having a frustrating experience with the Pickit 3
(intermittent and finnicky connection and programming issues for some
devices) which I've googled, but have not been able to resolve after
much tinkering with drivers, resistors, and registry settings. A brand
new second Pickit 3 gives me the same issues, and so does a new device
on a new PCB. So it's time to move on.
I really miss using the Pickit 2's, but they don't support the newer
devices.
Is there anything similar is size/cost that can program the newer
devices that any of you would recommend? FWIW, I have not faith in the
Pickit 4.
Cheers,
-Neil.
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[Neil]

I don't need a debugger. I have a brand new ICD3 here for a couple
years now, which I still haven't used yet. With a logic analyzer and an
LED or two, I can diagnose issues quite well.

I was also thinking about power as that's one of the big differences
between the Pickit2 and Pickit3 (IIRC 100mA and 50mA respectively), but
I have no issues on a specific board with an 18F25K22, though when I
switch just the chip to a 26K42, it's finnicky. So not sure that power
is the issue.

I've tried fresh cables... no difference, and on one board, I have a
direct pin header that the Pickit3 plugs into... same issue.

Yes the board is very proven and has had a few revisions -- thousands of
units with a 16F872, 16F1936, 16F883, 18F25K22, and now the 18F26K42. I
went to the Pickit3 just for the 18F parts, and though the programmer
software is annoying, it worked for the 18F25K22. Just swapping to the
18F26K42 introduces a lot of connection issues and frustration.
Interesting note... the 16F883 had some finnickyness also, and I figured
out just where to press a finger on the PGC/PGD pins to get it to work
fine. I can get that to work sometimes for the PIC32 with the Pickit3,
but not always.

Yes, sometimes, removing and re-plugging in the Pickit3 and restarting
the IPE seems to help but most of the time it doesn't.

But it's 2018 and Microchip has been doing this for long enough that I
shouldn't have to deal with all of this. Hence my intention to just
find something else that works. I just want to keep it lower cost ($50
is fine) as I will get at least 3.

Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Isaac M. Bavaresco
Neil, I have had debugging problems with PIC Kit 3, but very seldom
programming issues.
The most frequent problem is related to the PIC Kit not being able to
supply power to the board. The solution it to power the board with a power
supply.
The second most common problem is due to cable and connector wear and tear.
When I start getting too many failures I cut the ends of the debugging
cable and fit new connectors.
Is this board of yours an already proven design? Sometimes poor board
design can lead to debugging failures.
The PIC Kit can behave erratically after being connected to the PC for a
long time when debugging, but just programming takes very little time. When
I suspect that the debugger is starting to misbehave I just unplug it,
close the IDE and start over.
Cheers,
Isaac

Post by Neil
I've been having a frustrating experience with the Pickit 3
(intermittent and finnicky connection and programming issues for some
devices) which I've googled, but have not been able to resolve after
much tinkering with drivers, resistors, and registry settings. A brand
new second Pickit 3 gives me the same issues, and so does a new device
on a new PCB. So it's time to move on.
I really miss using the Pickit 2's, but they don't support the newer
devices.
Is there anything similar is size/cost that can program the newer
devices that any of you would recommend? FWIW, I have not faith in the
Pickit 4.
Cheers,
-Neil.
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[AB Pearce - UKRI STFC]

Get the new Microchip Snap, which is around US$15. Microchip were giving them away at the recent Masters apparently.

The only trick to it is you need MPLAB-X 5.05 to run it.



-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: 20 September 2018 03:14
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: [PIC] PIC programmer recommendation?

I've been having a frustrating experience with the Pickit 3 (intermittent and finnicky connection and programming issues for some
devices) which I've googled, but have not been able to resolve after much tinkering with drivers, resistors, and registry settings. A brand new second Pickit 3 gives me the same issues, and so does a new device on a new PCB. So it's time to move on.
I really miss using the Pickit 2's, but they don't support the newer devices.
Is there anything similar is size/cost that can program the newer devices that any of you would recommend? FWIW, I have not faith in the Pickit 4.

Cheers,
-Neil.

[Neil]

I've seen that great cow has a device file with more PICs, and happy to
pay for it to support their efforts. Especially since if have 4 or 5
Pickit2's floating around here.
But I have more finnicky-ness issues with the PIC32 than with the 26K42
and 46K42.
FWIW, the 25K22 mostly works fine.

So the pickit4 has pay-per-use features? I need to go see what those
are, but it already sounds disappointing since I use a $2 STlink v2
clone for ARM programming and they work great.

Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Neil
I really miss using the Pickit 2's, but they don't support the newer
devices.

If it is only 8 bit devices that you are interested in, then you should
check out the Great Cow BASIC developer's new version of the PK2 (and
PK3) standalone GUI and command line software which enables the
programming of newer devices. Yes, they're charging a "donation" (£23
GBP) which goes toward a three-year code-signing certificate to make
Windows happy. The code was offered to Microchip but they were not
interested (predictable I guess, they have their shiny new PICkit4 with
"pay per feature" software).
See https://github.com/Anobium/PICKit-Plus for supported 8 bit PICs. New
ones added on request.
The cost was worth it for me as a mere hobbyist.

[AB Pearce - UKRI STFC]

So the pickit4 has pay-per-use features? I need to go see what those are,

I haven't seen any details of what the PTU features are, but don't forget the Real-Ice has had such features for a long time. They are pay once features, and are pretty low cost for the Real Ice ones. I suspect that as the Pickit 4 gets established then these features will become available. I'm guessing they may be similar ones to those available for the Real Ice.

[Harold Hallikainen]

I've been using a PICkit3 for several years with no issue. I've also made
use of the "code to go" feature to send out updates for the rare occasion
where a bootload did not work. I have a couple Real ICE units that refuse
to work. One thing on PICkit 3 that caused me frustration for a while is
for debug (this is on MPLAB 8), there is not a warning that you have to
authorize write to protected boot memory. Instead, it just does not work.
I finally noticed that I had to enable writing to boot memory separately.
The full chip programming option would not work.

Harold

[Chris Roper]

An overview of PICKit+ by the Developer

Post by Harold Hallikainen
I've been using a PICkit3 for several years with no issue. I've also made
use of the "code to go" feature to send out updates for the rare occasion
where a bootload did not work. I have a couple Real ICE units that refuse
to work. One thing on PICkit 3 that caused me frustration for a while is
for debug (this is on MPLAB 8), there is not a warning that you have to
authorize write to protected boot memory. Instead, it just does not work.
I finally noticed that I had to enable writing to boot memory separately.
The full chip programming option would not work.
Harold
--
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com
Not sent from an iPhone.
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