[PIC:] ICD4

[Brent Brown]

I wrote:

> ICD4 (DV164045) looks to be on special on microchipdirect.com till the
> end of the month. Usually USD250, now USD180 with voucher code.
> Seems like a good deal. I've ordered one to replace my trusty (not that
> trusty) ICD3 that's done a few miles. Does anyone know if they're as
> good as they should be? eg. claims to be quicker programming.

Received the ICD4 last week. Notes & comments so far, maybe useful, maybe
not...

- ICD4 cannot provide any target power unless an external power adaptor is
connected. The ICD3 on the other hand can provide target power from the USB
supply alone, and has no connection for external power.

- The external power adaptor required is 9V DC. There are few places in the
documentation that state this. It's a 2.5mm pin DC jack, centre positive (as
expected, but not stated anywhere I could find). Nor is there anything I can find that
states the range of acceptable DC input voltage.

- Programmer won't program if it detects residual power on the programming pins
(comes up with a warning and won't let you continue), not a problem with ICD3.
While this seems like a reasonable precaution, it can create some problems. It
doesn't seem to be a feature that the user can confgure (set threshold) or turn off,
using MPLABX IDE v4.15 anyhow. The project I am working on presently will
ultimately be battery powered, but for development it's powered by the ICD. I have
an FTDI USB/USART cable connected to the uC serial port for debugging... TXD
from PC pushes up the uC supply rail enough to bring up the warning. Fixed by
adding 10k in series with TXD and 1k across uC VDD/VSS... works, just kind of a
hassle. Would be nice to plug in a programmer/debugger and have it work without
modifying the hardware.

- The ICD4 is taller and heavier than the ICD3, and has a metal (aluminium) case.

- The LED bar across the top of the ICD4 looks cool.


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[Steve Smith]

One more thing.
ICD4 wont work with MPLAB 8.92 its not currently supported.
Some of us old hacks still work in assembly

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of Brent
Brown
Sent: 11 April 2018 00:27
To: ***@mit.edu
Subject: Re:[PIC:] ICD4

I wrote:

> ICD4 (DV164045) looks to be on special on microchipdirect.com till the
> end of the month. Usually USD250, now USD180 with voucher code.
> Seems like a good deal. I've ordered one to replace my trusty (not
> that
> trusty) ICD3 that's done a few miles. Does anyone know if they're as
> good as they should be? eg. claims to be quicker programming.

Received the ICD4 last week. Notes & comments so far, maybe useful, maybe
not...

- ICD4 cannot provide any target power unless an external power adaptor is
connected. The ICD3 on the other hand can provide target power from the USB
supply alone, and has no connection for external power.

- The external power adaptor required is 9V DC. There are few places in the
documentation that state this. It's a 2.5mm pin DC jack, centre positive (as
expected, but not stated anywhere I could find). Nor is there anything I can
find that states the range of acceptable DC input voltage.

- Programmer won't program if it detects residual power on the programming
pins (comes up with a warning and won't let you continue), not a problem
with ICD3.
While this seems like a reasonable precaution, it can create some problems.
It doesn't seem to be a feature that the user can confgure (set threshold)
or turn off, using MPLABX IDE v4.15 anyhow. The project I am working on
presently will ultimately be battery powered, but for development it's
powered by the ICD. I have an FTDI USB/USART cable connected to the uC
serial port for debugging... TXD from PC pushes up the uC supply rail enough
to bring up the warning. Fixed by adding 10k in series with TXD and 1k
across uC VDD/VSS... works, just kind of a hassle. Would be nice to plug in
a programmer/debugger and have it work without modifying the hardware.

- The ICD4 is taller and heavier than the ICD3, and has a metal (aluminium)
case.

- The LED bar across the top of the ICD4 looks cool.


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[John J. McDonough]

On Wed, 2018-04-11 at 08:35 +0100, Steve Smith wrote:
> One more thing.
> ICD4 wont work with MPLAB 8.92 its not currently supported.
> Some of us old hacks still work in assembly

You don't need the ancient MPLAB 8 to work in assembly. MPLAB-X works
just fine. Of course, if you are still using Windows 95 I guess there is
an excuse.

--McD


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[RussellMc]

On 12 April 2018 at 10:56, John J. McDonough <***@is-sixsigma.com> wrote:


> You don't need the ancient MPLAB 8 to work in assembly. MPLAB-X works
> just fine. Of course, if you are still using Windows 95 I guess there is
> an excuse.
>

​Win-what?

R​
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[John J. McDonough]

On Thu, 2018-04-12 at 13:54 +1200, RussellMc wrote:

> ​Win-what?

When MPLAB-X first came out, I whined and complained because it was
pretty awful. But as it got past beta, sped up, quirks eliminated, I
began to use some of the features, it really isn't so bad.

Now going back to MPLAB 8 feels kind of like trying to work in CP/M.
Just really clumsy. Remember pip? That's what MPLAB 8 is like There are
some differences going to X that are a little annoying at first, but
pretty quick they become "better".

Admittedly, most of the really great features are for C, but even in
8-bit assembler there is the occasional "oh, isn't that neat".

--McD


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[William Westfield]

> if you are still using Windows 95

There’s this song about Windows 95. They still sing it; they say they’ll stop when if it stops sounding “current”

>> Press any key for the MS solution.
>> Click my mouse for the new revolution.
>> Smile and grin at the changes all around.
>> Will I have enough RAM today,
>> To boot up Plug & Play?
>> Better get on my knees and pray -
>> We don’t get fooled again.
>>
>> Meet the new DOS.
>> Same as the old DOS….

https://jeffandmayabohnhoff.bandcamp.com/track/wont-get-fooled



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[RussellMc]

A bit (or byte) newer:

We are the Borg of Pentium
Division is futile
You will be approximated.
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[John Gardner]

Pentiums... Are you guys that old? "8)

...


On 4/14/18, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> A bit (or byte) newer:
>
> We are the Borg of Pentium
> Division is futile
> You will be approximated.
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[sd211]

Pentiums are kind of a new thing, not sure it will stick though. I remember
the time when '386 was a leap forward!
In the "good old days" (tm), we had a 'Turbo' button on the computer, so you
can run the CPU at 1.5 - 2x speed. I think it was in PC XT and PC AT
computers, but my memory bank might be failing...

Sergey




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[David C Brown]

The "Turbo" button was a misnomer since it actually turned the speed of the
processor down to 4.77MHz to cope with some old games. It survived til
some of the early 486 machines.

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

On 15 April 2018 at 17:28, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:

> Pentiums are kind of a new thing, not sure it will stick though. I
> remember
> the time when '386 was a leap forward!
> In the "good old days" (tm), we had a 'Turbo' button on the computer, so
> you
> can run the CPU at 1.5 - 2x speed. I think it was in PC XT and PC AT
> computers, but my memory bank might be failing...
>
> Sergey
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://microcontrollers.2385.n7.nabble.com/
> MicroControllers-PIC-f3.html
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[RussellMc]

On 16 April 2018 at 04:28, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:


> Pentiums are kind of a new thing, not sure it will stick though. I
> remember
> the time when '386 was a leap forward!
> In the "good old days" (tm), we had a 'Turbo' button on the computer, so
> you
> can run the CPU at 1.5 - 2x speed. I think it was in PC XT and PC AT
> computers, but my memory bank might be failing...
>


Uphill both ways in the snow, with no shoes ... cardboard box , ice, pond,
... .

I ordered 3 PCs from the (in)famous Golden Building in Hong Kong (which I
managed to visit many years later).
I sold 2 to patrially pay for the third and sold an HP9830 as well.

The two I sold were standard 4.77 Mhz single floppy disk machines.
For my one I "lashed out" and bought a turbo 4.77 / 6 Mhz version with two
floppy disks.
RAM may have been 64 kB. May have been less.
Disk drives MAY have been single sided 180 kB but probably double sided 360
kB. My first floppy drive was a single side 160 kB 5 1/4 ".
(Std was usually 180 kB/side but these were 160 kB)

Having two disks proved utterly fantastic - no longer did I have to load
program disk then data disk or change back to program disk occasionally for
incremental loads of some non inluded program material.
AND when disk copying it "just did it" rather than having to
read-swap-write-swap-read /... diskettes.

Those were the days!
Long gone, fortunately.


Russell


(HP 9830a currently $2450 on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hewlett-Packard-9830A-Desktop-Programmable-Calculator-9800-Series/202145939533?epid=1023829365&hash=item2f10d6404d:g:LYgAAOSwfVhaMCNo

​

>
>
>
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htt

[DrSkip]

Anyone build with TI 74181's and make their own CPUs? Static RAM
measured in k... Creating one's own microcode and "assembly language"
from scratch? Been there done that. 1970's...  Long live wire-wraping! 
;)  Wish I never had given away my teletype with paper tape reader!

I could route one of the logs (Linux) to it (one without much activity
of course) and have it clank and tap away randomly throughout the day
and have a 1970 moment!


On 04/17/2018 07:34 PM, RussellMc wrote:
> On 16 April 2018 at 04:28, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:
>
>
>> Pentiums are kind of a new thing, not sure it will stick though. I
>> remember
>> the time when '386 was a leap forward!
>> In the "good old days" (tm), we had a 'Turbo' button on the computer, so
>> you
>> can run the CPU at 1.5 - 2x speed. I think it was in PC XT and PC AT
>> computers, but my memory bank might be failing...
>>
>
> Uphill both ways in the snow, with no shoes ... cardboard box , ice, pond,
> ... .
>

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[David C Brown]

Back in the late seventies computers were still considered rather esoteric
and in British Universities it took a lot of special pleading to be able to
purchase one. Jodrell Bank Observatory already had a Ferranti Argos
machine but were so not permitted to buy another so they decided to build a
clone. As an ICL trained whizz kid designer I joined them on the project.

We used AMD2901 bit slice chips,, 4K static memory chips, microcode in
PROM. We even designed our own visual display unit. WE built on 2 sided
circuit boards about 6" x 8 " plugged into a wire wrapped "back plane". It
was surprisingly successful and we developed it to a fairly high degree of
sophistication despite some severe engineering problems when we cranked the
clock speed up. We also developed a version of the Forth language to run
on it though a lot of the programming was done in machine code without even
the benefit of mnemonics.. i still remember that 0200 was an unconditional
jump

And, yes, we also used teletypes with paper tape readers :-)

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

On 18 April 2018 at 08:26, DrSkip <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Anyone build with TI 74181's and make their own CPUs? Static RAM
> measured in k... Creating one's own microcode and "assembly language"
> from scratch? Been there done that. 1970's... Long live wire-wraping!
> ;) Wish I never had given away my teletype with paper tape reader!
>
> I could route one of the logs (Linux) to it (one without much activity
> of course) and have it clank and tap away randomly throughout the day
> and have a 1970 moment!
>
>
> On 04/17/2018 07:34 PM, RussellMc wrote:
> > On 16 April 2018 at 04:28, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Pentiums are kind of a new thing, not sure it will stick though. I
> >> remember
> >> the time when '386 was a leap forward!
> >> In the "good old days" (tm), we had a 'Turbo' button on the computer, so
> >> you
> >> can run the CPU at 1.5 - 2x speed. I think it was in PC XT and PC AT
> >> computers, but my memory bank might be failing...
> >>
> >
> > Uphill both ways in the snow, with no shoes ... cardboard box , ice,
> pond,
> > ... .
> >
>
> --
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[mbaum7901]

Paper tape two-pass 8080 assembler on an ASR33 teletype - fun (not)
Great motivation to find some other way to do that

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of DrSkip
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 02:26
To: ***@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4

Anyone build with TI 74181's and make their own CPUs? Static RAM measured in k... Creating one's own microcode and "assembly language"
from scratch? Been there done that. 1970's... Long live wire-wraping!
;) Wish I never had given away my teletype with paper tape reader!

I could route one of the logs (Linux) to it (one without much activity of course) and have it clank and tap away randomly throughout the day and have a 1970 moment!


On 04/17/2018 07:34 PM, RussellMc wrote:
> On 16 April 2018 at 04:28, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:
>
>
>> Pentiums are kind of a new thing, not sure it will stick though. I
>> remember the time when '386 was a leap forward!
>> In the "good old days" (tm), we had a 'Turbo' button on the computer,
>> so you can run the CPU at 1.5 - 2x speed. I think it was in PC XT
>> and PC AT computers, but my memory bank might be failing...
>>
>
> Uphill both ways in the snow, with no shoes ... cardboard box , ice,
> pond, ... .
>

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[AB, Pearce - UKRI STFC]

I remember the first serious micro programming I did was with an RCA Cosmac 1802 assembler running on a PDP11 with ASR33 punch tape.

By the time one used the RT-11 (IIRC) editor to enter the program, punch it to tape and then do the two pass assembly it became quite a long winded process.



-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of mbaum7901
Sent: 18 April 2018 14:49
To: 'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.' <***@mit.edu>
Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4

Paper tape two-pass 8080 assembler on an ASR33 teletype - fun (not) Great motivation to find some other way to do that

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of DrSkip
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 02:26
To: ***@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4

Anyone build with TI 74181's and make their own CPUs? Static RAM measured in k... Creating one's own microcode and "assembly language"
from scratch? Been there done that. 1970's... Long live wire-wraping!
;) Wish I never had given away my teletype with paper tape reader!

I could route one of the logs (Linux) to it (one without much activity of course) and have it clank and tap away randomly throughout the day and have a 1970 moment!


On 04/17/2018 07:34 PM, RussellMc wrote:
> On 16 April 2018 at 04:28, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:
>
>
>> Pentiums are kind of a new thing, not sure it will stick though. I
>> remember the time when '386 was a leap forward!
>> In the "good old days" (tm), we had a 'Turbo' button on the computer,
>> so you can run the CPU at 1.5 - 2x speed. I think it was in PC XT
>> and PC AT computers, but my memory bank might be failing...
>>
>
> Uphill both ways in the snow, with no shoes ... cardboard box , ice,
> pond, ... .
>

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[John Chung]

I feel younger now.....
TQ Guys!


On Wednesday, April 18, 2018, 10:29:59 PM GMT+8, AB, Pearce - UKRI STFC <***@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:

I remember the first serious micro programming I did was with an RCA Cosmac 1802 assembler running on a PDP11 with ASR33 punch tape.

By the time one used the RT-11 (IIRC) editor to enter the program, punch it to tape and then do the two pass assembly it became quite a long winded process.



-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of mbaum7901
Sent: 18 April 2018 14:49
To: 'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.' <***@mit.edu>
Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4

Paper tape two-pass 8080 assembler on an ASR33 teletype - fun (not) Great motivation to find some other way to do that

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of DrSkip
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 02:26
To: ***@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4

Anyone build with TI 74181's and make their own CPUs? Static RAM measured in k... Creating one's own microcode and "assembly language"
from scratch? Been there done that. 1970's...  Long live wire-wraping!
;)  Wish I never had given away my teletype with paper tape reader!

I could route one of the logs (Linux) to it (one without much activity of course) and have it clank and tap away randomly throughout the day and have a 1970 moment!


On 04/17/2018 07:34 PM, RussellMc wrote:
>  On 16 April 2018 at 04:28, sd211 <***@dryga.us> wrote:
>
>
>> Pentiums are kind of a new thing, not sure it will stick though.  I
>> remember the time when '386 was a leap forward!
>> In the "good old days" (tm), we had a 'Turbo' button on the computer,
>> so you can run the CPU at 1.5 - 2x speed.  I think it was in PC XT
>> and PC AT computers, but my memory bank might be failing...
>>
>
> Uphill both ways in the snow, with no shoes ... cardboard box , ice,
> pond, ...  .
>

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[Van Horn, David]

Intel 4004...

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of John Gardner
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 9:36 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4

Pentiums... Are you guys that old? "8)

...


On 4/14/18, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> A bit (or byte) newer:
>
> We are the Borg of Pentium
> Division is futile
> You will be approximated.
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[John Gardner]

...4004...

Bah - Real Men use 54181s... "8)

On 4/16/18, Van Horn, David <***@backcountryaccess.com> wrote:
> Intel 4004...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of John
> Gardner
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 9:36 AM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4
>
> Pentiums... Are you guys that old? "8)
>
> ...
>
>
> On 4/14/18, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> A bit (or byte) newer:
>>
>> We are the Borg of Pentium
>> Division is futile
>> You will be approximated.
>> --
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[John Chung]

Drat..... My students are from 97......


On Saturday, April 14, 2018, 2:59:33 PM GMT+8, William Westfield <***@mac.com> wrote:

> if you are still using Windows 95

There’s this song about Windows 95.  They still sing it; they say they’ll stop when if it stops sounding “current”

>> Press any key for the MS solution.
>> Click my mouse for the new revolution.
>> Smile and grin at the changes all around.
>> Will I have enough RAM today,
>> To boot up Plug & Play?
>> Better get on my knees and pray -
>> We don’t get fooled again.
>>
>> Meet the new DOS.
>> Same as the old DOS….

https://jeffandmayabohnhoff.bandcamp.com/track/wont-get-fooled



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[s***@interlog.com]

Quoting Steve Smith <***@blueyonder.co.uk>:

> One more thing.
> ICD4 wont work with MPLAB 8.92 its not currently supported.
> Some of us old hacks still work in assembly
>
> Steve
>
Using ICD4 with assembly right now (under MPLAB-X, of course). Doesn't
seem faster, just the opposite (I suspect it has more overhead but
runs faster once it gets going, but this is just a little bitty 7kB
chip) and suffers some communication glitches compared to ICD3, in my
experience so far.

The case is heavy enough to hurt if it falls on your foot, and the LEDs
are amusing enough.

--sp


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[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

A little trick, in the embedded section of options, there is a checkbox
which says 'maintain active connection to hardware tool'. You may want to
try checking this, as it cuts out all of the overhead of connecting to the
tool each time you program.

One caveat, during the ICD4 beta with this checked, the ICD4 would not
release the target from reset. I think, but don't know, that this has been
resolved.

A second caveat, by checking this, you may find you have more frequent
issues where mplabx gets out of sync with the tool requiring a exit from
mplabx and the ICD. It really depends on what you're doing with the tool
whether this happens or not.



On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 8:05 AM, <***@interlog.com> wrote:

> Quoting Steve Smith <***@blueyonder.co.uk>:
>
> > One more thing.
> > ICD4 wont work with MPLAB 8.92 its not currently supported.
> > Some of us old hacks still work in assembly
> >
> > Steve
> >
> Using ICD4 with assembly right now (under MPLAB-X, of course). Doesn't
> seem faster, just the opposite (I suspect it has more overhead but
> runs faster once it gets going, but this is just a little bitty 7kB
> chip) and suffers some communication glitches compared to ICD3, in my
> experience so far.
>
> The case is heavy enough to hurt if it falls on your foot, and the LEDs
> are amusing enough.
>
> --sp
>
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>



--
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: [phone] | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
***@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
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[John Hansen]

That's a great suggestion. Is this option available for the ICD3 as well?
If so, where?

John Hansen

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 10:43 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
***@packetflux.com> wrote:

> A little trick, in the embedded section of options, there is a checkbox
> which says 'maintain active connection to hardware tool'. You may want to
> try checking this, as it cuts out all of the overhead of connecting to the
> tool each time you program.
>
> One caveat, during the ICD4 beta with this checked, the ICD4 would not
> release the target from reset. I think, but don't know, that this has been
> resolved.
>
> A second caveat, by checking this, you may find you have more frequent
> issues where mplabx gets out of sync with the tool requiring a exit from
> mplabx and the ICD. It really depends on what you're doing with the tool
> whether this happens or not.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 8:05 AM, <***@interlog.com> wrote:
>
> > Quoting Steve Smith <***@blueyonder.co.uk>:
> >
> > > One more thing.
> > > ICD4 wont work with MPLAB 8.92 its not currently supported.
> > > Some of us old hacks still work in assembly
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > Using ICD4 with assembly right now (under MPLAB-X, of course). Doesn't
> > seem faster, just the opposite (I suspect it has more overhead but
> > runs faster once it gets going, but this is just a little bitty 7kB
> > chip) and suffers some communication glitches compared to ICD3, in my
> > experience so far.
> >
> > The case is heavy enough to hurt if it falls on your foot, and the LEDs
> > are amusing enough.
> >
> > --sp
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: [phone] | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> ***@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
> --
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>
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[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Same spot, it's applicable to most of not all of the tools.




On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:32 AM John Hansen <***@hansen.net> wrote:

> That's a great suggestion. Is this option available for the ICD3 as well?
> If so, where?
>
> John Hansen
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 10:43 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> ***@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> > A little trick, in the embedded section of options, there is a checkbox
> > which says 'maintain active connection to hardware tool'. You may want
> to
> > try checking this, as it cuts out all of the overhead of connecting to
> the
> > tool each time you program.
> >
> > One caveat, during the ICD4 beta with this checked, the ICD4 would not
> > release the target from reset. I think, but don't know, that this has
> been
> > resolved.
> >
> > A second caveat, by checking this, you may find you have more frequent
> > issues where mplabx gets out of sync with the tool requiring a exit from
> > mplabx and the ICD. It really depends on what you're doing with the
> tool
> > whether this happens or not.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 8:05 AM, <***@interlog.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Quoting Steve Smith <***@blueyonder.co.uk>:
> > >
> > > > One more thing.
> > > > ICD4 wont work with MPLAB 8.92 its not currently supported.
> > > > Some of us old hacks still work in assembly
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > Using ICD4 with assembly right now (under MPLAB-X, of course). Doesn't
> > > seem faster, just the opposite (I suspect it has more overhead but
> > > runs faster once it gets going, but this is just a little bitty 7kB
> > > chip) and suffers some communication glitches compared to ICD3, in my
> > > experience so far.
> > >
> > > The case is heavy enough to hurt if it falls on your foot, and the LEDs
> > > are amusing enough.
> > >
> > > --sp
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > View/change your membership options at
> > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> > Tel: [phone] | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> > ***@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> <
> http://facebook.com/packetflux>
> > <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
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[Michael Johnston]

Has anybody purchased the new pickit4? I saw it last week and haven’t heard much about it

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 13, 2018, at 9:08 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <***@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> Same spot, it's applicable to most of not all of the tools.
>
>
>
>
>> On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:32 AM John Hansen <***@hansen.net> wrote:
>>
>> That's a great suggestion. Is this option available for the ICD3 as well?
>> If so, where?
>>
>> John Hansen
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 10:43 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> ***@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A little trick, in the embedded section of options, there is a checkbox
>>> which says 'maintain active connection to hardware tool'. You may want
>> to
>>> try checking this, as it cuts out all of the overhead of connecting to
>> the
>>> tool each time you program.
>>>
>>> One caveat, during the ICD4 beta with this checked, the ICD4 would not
>>> release the target from reset. I think, but don't know, that this has
>> been
>>> resolved.
>>>
>>> A second caveat, by checking this, you may find you have more frequent
>>> issues where mplabx gets out of sync with the tool requiring a exit from
>>> mplabx and the ICD. It really depends on what you're doing with the
>> tool
>>> whether this happens or not.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 8:05 AM, <***@interlog.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Steve Smith <***@blueyonder.co.uk>:
>>>>
>>>>> One more thing.
>>>>> ICD4 wont work with MPLAB 8.92 its not currently supported.
>>>>> Some of us old hacks still work in assembly
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>> Using ICD4 with assembly right now (under MPLAB-X, of course). Doesn't
>>>> seem faster, just the opposite (I suspect it has more overhead but
>>>> runs faster once it gets going, but this is just a little bitty 7kB
>>>> chip) and suffers some communication glitches compared to ICD3, in my
>>>> experience so far.
>>>>
>>>> The case is heavy enough to hurt if it falls on your foot, and the LEDs
>>>> are amusing enough.
>>>>
>>>> --sp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>>>> View/change your membership options at
>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>>> Tel: [phone] | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>> ***@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> <
>> http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>> --
>>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>>> View/change your membership options at
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>>
>> --
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>>
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[Brent Brown]

On 12 Apr 2018 at 20:43, Forrest Christian wrote:

> A little trick, in the embedded section of options, there is a checkbox
> which says 'maintain active connection to hardware tool'. You may want to
> try checking this, as it cuts out all of the overhead of connecting to the
> tool each time you program.

Thanks for the tip! It does seem to streamline things. There is a relay in the ICD4
that be heard to click off/on during the connect procedure, and this setting skips that
most of the time. Obviously it still has to do a full connect every now and then, like
after closing/re-opening MPLAB, or unplugging the ICD4.

Side issue: Even with "maintain active connection" I still see 2 resets of the target
for each build/program/run. My code sends a power up message out the UART, so
in between the two resets it's letting the target uC run more than long enough to
send 40 characters @ 115200 bd = 3.5ms. Difficult to catch accurately on scope,
but looks like after a few bursts of 9V (high voltage programming) MCLR is held
low, gets released for maybe 100ms or so (3V, program runs), then is held low for
another ~400ms (0V = reset), then finally is released again (3V, program runs).

Not loosing any sleep over it, just a little annoying. Same behaviour observed with
ICD3. I hadn't really noticed before, as in most other projects I've dropped in a
bootloader first and then done development iterations & debugging using the
bootloader to load the code & termninal program to debug.

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[RussellMc]

On 17 April 2018 at 10:58, Brent Brown <***@eds.co.nz> wrote:

> On 12 Apr 2018 at 20:43, Forrest Christian wrote:
>
> > A little trick, in the embedded section of options, there is a checkbox
> > which says 'maintain active connection to hardware tool'. You may want
> to
> > try checking this, as it cuts out all of the overhead of connecting to
> the
> > tool each time you program.
>
> Thanks for the tip! It does seem to streamline things. There is a relay in
> the ICD4
> that be heard to click off/on during the connect procedure,


​Relay?
RELAY?
REALLY !!!!


R

[ :-) ]

​
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[Brent Brown]

On 18 Apr 2018 at 11:38, RussellMc wrote:

> On 17 April 2018 at 10:58, Brent Brown <***@eds.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > On 12 Apr 2018 at 20:43, Forrest Christian wrote:
> >
> > > A little trick, in the embedded section of options, there is a checkbox
> > > which says 'maintain active connection to hardware tool'. You may want
> > to
> > > try checking this, as it cuts out all of the overhead of connecting to
> > the
> > > tool each time you program.
> >
> > Thanks for the tip! It does seem to streamline things. There is a relay in
> > the ICD4
> > that be heard to click off/on during the connect procedure,
>
>
> Relay?
> RELAY?
> REALLY !!!!

Relay, really~!

https://youtu.be/jXVWk-7OFvY?t=530

And now I know how the case opens I've looked inside mine too. The guy in the
video does say "ridiculous" a bit too much, but overall is quite informative.


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[Christopher Head]

On April 17, 2018 6:58:46 AM GMT+08:00, Brent Brown <***@eds.co.nz> wrote:
>Side issue: Even with "maintain active connection" I still see 2 resets
>of the target
>for each build/program/run.

AFAICT the PICkit3 does the same, at least for some targets. Though possibly not if using MPLAB-IDE.

--
Christopher Head

[John Chung]

We have too many programmers.
Start with PicStart until ICD 3

On Thursday, April 12, 2018, 10:23:01 PM GMT+8, ***@interlog.com <***@interlog.com> wrote:

Quoting Steve Smith <***@blueyonder.co.uk>:

> One more thing.
> ICD4 wont work with MPLAB 8.92 its not currently supported.
> Some of us old hacks still work in assembly
>
> Steve
>
Using ICD4 with assembly right now (under MPLAB-X, of course). Doesn't
seem faster, just the opposite (I suspect it has more overhead but 
runs faster once it gets going, but this is just a little bitty 7kB 
chip) and suffers some communication glitches compared to ICD3, in my 
experience so far.

The case is heavy enough to hurt if it falls on your foot, and the LEDs
are amusing enough.

--sp


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[xygax]

Win 7 with a dos box to run orcad.... !


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: RussellMc <***@gmail.com> Date: 12/04/2018 02:54 (GMT+00:00) To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <***@mit.edu> Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4
On 12 April 2018 at 10:56, John J. McDonough <***@is-sixsigma.com> wrote:


> You don't need the ancient MPLAB 8 to work in assembly. MPLAB-X works
> just fine. Of course, if you are still using Windows 95 I guess there is
> an excuse.
>

​Win-what?

    R​
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[Jean-Paul Louis]

I still have the original ORCAD Floppies from the mid 80's

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 2:43 AM xygax <***@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> Win 7 with a dos box to run orcad.... !
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------From: RussellMc <***@gmail.com>
> Date: 12/04/2018 02:54 (GMT+00:00) To: "Microcontroller discussion list -
> Public." <***@mit.edu> Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4
> On 12 April 2018 at 10:56, John J. McDonough <***@is-sixsigma.com> wrote:
>
>
> > You don't need the ancient MPLAB 8 to work in assembly. MPLAB-X works
> > just fine. Of course, if you are still using Windows 95 I guess there is
> > an excuse.
> >
>
> ​Win-what?
>
> R​
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[Van Horn, David]

I still run the Old Dos Orcad group on Yahoogroups.

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of Jean-Paul Louis
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 3:31 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4

I still have the original ORCAD Floppies from the mid 80's

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 2:43 AM xygax <***@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> Win 7 with a dos box to run orcad.... !
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------From: RussellMc
> <***@gmail.com>
> Date: 12/04/2018 02:54 (GMT+00:00) To: "Microcontroller discussion
> list - Public." <***@mit.edu> Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4 On 12 April
> 2018 at 10:56, John J. McDonough <***@is-sixsigma.com> wrote:
>
>
> > You don't need the ancient MPLAB 8 to work in assembly. MPLAB-X
> > works just fine. Of course, if you are still using Windows 95 I
> > guess there is an excuse.
> >
>
> ​Win-what?
>
> R​
> --
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[Harrison Cooper]

Holy cow....I used DOS OrCAD up till when I switched to Eagle some....10+ years ago.

Question is...why do we save this old stuff? Sure I'm guilty, I have floppy's of IBM PC-DOS disks, I keep thinking of putting them in a frame and hang them on the wall. Nostalgia. But fewer and fewer of us even get or understand what it all means. I've simply just been junking old hardware when they do a ewaste recycle event. I had some old XT motherboards that were small....cool embedded use, but why when you can do more with a rPi board.

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Van Horn, David
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 8:51 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4

I still run the Old Dos Orcad group on Yahoogroups.

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of Jean-Paul Louis
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 3:31 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4

I still have the original ORCAD Floppies from the mid 80's

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 2:43 AM xygax <***@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> Win 7 with a dos box to run orcad.... !
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------From: RussellMc
> <***@gmail.com>
> Date: 12/04/2018 02:54 (GMT+00:00) To: "Microcontroller discussion
> list - Public." <***@mit.edu> Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4 On 12 April
> 2018 at 10:56, John J. McDonough <***@is-sixsigma.com> wrote:
>
>
> > You don't need the ancient MPLAB 8 to work in assembly. MPLAB-X
> > works just fine. Of course, if you are still using Windows 95 I
> > guess there is an excuse.
> >
>
> ​Win-what?
>
> R​
> --
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[David C Brown]

I have to admit to been vain enough to frame one of the prototypes of the
very first custom chip I designed in the early '80s. White ceramic case
with gold lettering mounted on a piece of black antistatic foam look quite
cool :-)

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

On 17 April 2018 at 17:57, Harrison Cooper <***@wdc.com> wrote:

> Holy cow....I used DOS OrCAD up till when I switched to Eagle some....10+
> years ago.
>
> Question is...why do we save this old stuff? Sure I'm guilty, I have
> floppy's of IBM PC-DOS disks, I keep thinking of putting them in a frame
> and hang them on the wall. Nostalgia. But fewer and fewer of us even get
> or understand what it all means. I've simply just been junking old
> hardware when they do a ewaste recycle event. I had some old XT
> motherboards that were small....cool embedded use, but why when you can do
> more with a rPi board.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf
> Of Van Horn, David
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 8:51 AM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4
>
> I still run the Old Dos Orcad group on Yahoogroups.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of
> Jean-Paul Louis
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 3:31 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4
>
> I still have the original ORCAD Floppies from the mid 80's
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 2:43 AM xygax <***@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Win 7 with a dos box to run orcad.... !
> >
> >
> > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> > -------- Original message --------From: RussellMc
> > <***@gmail.com>
> > Date: 12/04/2018 02:54 (GMT+00:00) To: "Microcontroller discussion
> > list - Public." <***@mit.edu> Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4 On 12 April
> > 2018 at 10:56, John J. McDonough <***@is-sixsigma.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > You don't need the ancient MPLAB 8 to work in assembly. MPLAB-X
> > > works just fine. Of course, if you are still using Windows 95 I
> > > guess there is an excuse.
> > >
> >
> > ​Win-what?
> >
> > R​
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[Clint Jay]

I happened across a Hollerith Tabulator last weekend...

On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 6:22 pm David C Brown, <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have to admit to been vain enough to frame one of the prototypes of the
> very first custom chip I designed in the early '80s. White ceramic case
> with gold lettering mounted on a piece of black antistatic foam look quite
> cool :-)
>
> __________________________________________
> David C Brown
> 43 Bings Road
> Whaley Bridge
> High Peak Phone: [phone]
> Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
> SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> <http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
>
>
>
> *Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
>
> On 17 April 2018 at 17:57, Harrison Cooper <***@wdc.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Holy cow....I used DOS OrCAD up till when I switched to Eagle some....10+
> > years ago.
> >
> > Question is...why do we save this old stuff? Sure I'm guilty, I have
> > floppy's of IBM PC-DOS disks, I keep thinking of putting them in a frame
> > and hang them on the wall. Nostalgia. But fewer and fewer of us even
> get
> > or understand what it all means. I've simply just been junking old
> > hardware when they do a ewaste recycle event. I had some old XT
> > motherboards that were small....cool embedded use, but why when you can
> do
> > more with a rPi board.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf
> > Of Van Horn, David
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 8:51 AM
> > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> > Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4
> >
> > I still run the Old Dos Orcad group on Yahoogroups.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of
> > Jean-Paul Louis
> > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 3:31 PM
> > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4
> >
> > I still have the original ORCAD Floppies from the mid 80's
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 2:43 AM xygax <***@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Win 7 with a dos box to run orcad.... !
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> > > -------- Original message --------From: RussellMc
> > > <***@gmail.com>
> > > Date: 12/04/2018 02:54 (GMT+00:00) To: "Microcontroller discussion
> > > list - Public." <***@mit.edu> Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4 On 12 April
> > > 2018 at 10:56, John J. McDonough <***@is-sixsigma.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > You don't need the ancient MPLAB 8 to work in assembly. MPLAB-X
> > > > works just fine. Of course, if you are still using Windows 95 I
> > > > guess there is an excuse.
> > > >
> > >
> > > ​Win-what?
> > >
> > > R​
> > > --
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> > > View/change your membership options at
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[AB, Pearce - UKRI STFC]

> Win 7 with a dos box to run orcad.... !


What ??? you are behind the times and missing some great features ...



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[xygax]

8080.... is about my first one...


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: "Van Horn, David" <***@backcountryaccess.com> Date: 16/04/2018 16:37 (GMT+00:00) To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <***@mit.edu> Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4
Intel 4004...

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of John Gardner
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 9:36 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4

Pentiums...  Are you guys that old?     "8)

...


On 4/14/18, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> A bit (or byte) newer:
>
> We are the Borg of Pentium
> Division is futile
> You will be approximated.
> --
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[p***@roadrunner.com]

Worked with Data General Novas and IBM 1130s while in high school.

Built a multiplier coprocessor as a midnight oil project for a 8008 while in college.

Still have my Z80-based S100 system, in running condition.

- - Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of xygax
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 12:57 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4

8080.... is about my first one...


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: "Van Horn, David" <***@backcountryaccess.com> Date: 16/04/2018 16:37 (GMT+00:00) To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <***@mit.edu> Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4 Intel 4004...

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of John Gardner
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 9:36 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4

Pentiums... Are you guys that old? "8)

...


On 4/14/18, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> A bit (or byte) newer:
>
> We are the Borg of Pentium
> Division is futile
> You will be approximated.
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
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[Chris Roper]

My first Micro was the 6800, followed by both 6809 and Z80.
6809 was my favorite and the basis of most of my early designs.



On 16 April 2018 at 19:11, <***@roadrunner.com> wrote:

> Worked with Data General Novas and IBM 1130s while in high school.
>
> Built a multiplier coprocessor as a midnight oil project for a 8008 while
> in college.
>
> Still have my Z80-based S100 system, in running condition.
>
> - - Bob Ammerman
> RAm Systems
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of xygax
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 12:57 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4
>
> 8080.... is about my first one...
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------From: "Van Horn, David" <david.vanhorn@
> backcountryaccess.com> Date: 16/04/2018 16:37 (GMT+00:00) To:
> "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <***@mit.edu> Subject:
> RE: [PIC:] ICD4 Intel 4004...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of John
> Gardner
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 9:36 AM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4
>
> Pentiums... Are you guys that old? "8)
>
> ...
>
>
> On 4/14/18, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > A bit (or byte) newer:
> >
> > We are the Borg of Pentium
> > Division is futile
> > You will be approximated.
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
> --
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>
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[John J. McDonough]

My first "home" computer was a hand wired 8008. I still remember paying
$100 for 1K of memory, and I felt it was a great deal.

--McD

On Mon, 2018-04-16 at 13:11 -0400, ***@roadrunner.com wrote:
> Worked with Data General Novas and IBM 1130s while in high school.
>
> Built a multiplier coprocessor as a midnight oil project for a 8008 while in college.
>
> Still have my Z80-based S100 system, in running condition.
>
> - - Bob Ammerman
> RAm Systems
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of xygax
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 12:57 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4
>
> 8080.... is about my first one...
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------From: "Van Horn, David" <***@backcountryaccess.com> Date: 16/04/2018 16:37 (GMT+00:00) To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <***@mit.edu> Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4 Intel 4004...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of John Gardner
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 9:36 AM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4
>
> Pentiums... Are you guys that old? "8)
>
> ...
>
>
> On 4/14/18, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > A bit (or byte) newer:
> >
> > We are the Borg of Pentium
> > Division is futile
> > You will be approximated.
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
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>


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[David C Brown]

And I still have the paper tape that we used to bootstrap our Ferranti
Argus 400 in the late '70s.
And a deck of punched cards for the Manchester University ICL1906

And I know a man who has a notched stick used to record the wages of the
men who built the Great Pyramid of Cheops. :-)

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

On 16 April 2018 at 22:38, John J. McDonough <***@is-sixsigma.com> wrote:

> My first "home" computer was a hand wired 8008. I still remember paying
> $100 for 1K of memory, and I felt it was a great deal.
>
> --McD
>
> On Mon, 2018-04-16 at 13:11 -0400, ***@roadrunner.com wrote:
> > Worked with Data General Novas and IBM 1130s while in high school.
> >
> > Built a multiplier coprocessor as a midnight oil project for a 8008
> while in college.
> >
> > Still have my Z80-based S100 system, in running condition.
> >
> > - - Bob Ammerman
> > RAm Systems
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of
> xygax
> > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 12:57 PM
> > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> > Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4
> >
> > 8080.... is about my first one...
> >
> >
> > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> > -------- Original message --------From: "Van Horn, David" <
> ***@backcountryaccess.com> Date: 16/04/2018 16:37 (GMT+00:00)
> To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <***@mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: [PIC:] ICD4 Intel 4004...
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: piclist-***@mit.edu <piclist-***@mit.edu> On Behalf Of
> John Gardner
> > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 9:36 AM
> > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [PIC:] ICD4
> >
> > Pentiums... Are you guys that old? "8)
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> > On 4/14/18, RussellMc <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > A bit (or byte) newer:
> > >
> > > We are the Borg of Pentium
> > > Division is futile
> > > You will be approximated.
> > > --
> > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > View/change your membership options at
> > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > >
> > --
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[RussellMc]

On 17 April 2018 at 04:56, xygax <***@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> 8080.... is about my first one...
>
> ​SC/MP hand built, ​6802 D2 kit, ...
A friend built a complexish 8008 system in support of a Masters thesis.


R
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