[EE] R4850-G2 CAN Bus without any clue...

Discussion:

Tobias Gogolin

2018-11-12 10:30:40 UTC

Hello estimated electronics wizards.
I am exploring to use a very cool 3kW Huawei R4850G2 rectifier as base for
a quick charger for my electric trike. Regrettably the published pdf about
its operation are not very in-depth and I assume it needs some CAN bus
hacking before it even releases its awesome power! I published in the
thread that helped me to find this device including a look inside the
really sophisticated design of this Access Power Rectifier here.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=86038

I appreciate any hints of how to proceed. I know the unit is alive and
boots up and even puts a small test voltage out, and the 3 status LED tell
that its alive, but it must want some configuration still. I already got a
MCP2515 CAN bus shield and Arduino ready, but I wouldn't know what to
expect or try next...

Thanks for your time!
--
„Jetzt war der Augenblick gekommen wo wir denken mussten. Der Augenblick wo
wir aufspringen und entscheiden mußten, wenn wir nicht allmählich so
vergiftet werden wollten, daß wir blind die Plätze einnahmen, die uns im
führerlosen Zug der Älteren angeboten wurden.“
Aus dem ersten Kapitel von 'Fatu Hiva - Zurück zur Natur' von Thor Heyerdahl
-------------------------------------

Tobias Gogolin
Tel. D1 (49) 151 6600 7066
Tel. D2 (49) 2672 906 9191
skype: moontogo

--
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Richard Prosser

2018-11-12 20:30:09 UTC

Permalink

Hi Tobias,
It looks like a standard Telecom type battery charger. From the datasheet I
don't see anything indicating that it needs comms to startup but you may
need comms to adjust the voltage & current limit to your requirement. It's
probably preset to 53.5V or so with maximum current & power limit etc.

What Leds are showing? - a single green would appear to indicate normal
operation.

What happens with a resistive load (eg 4x12V automotive bulbs in series, a
220V incandecent lamp or a heater element)? With 3kW output capability it
should be able to provide 50A or so current. Note that the output
protection is foldback type so short circuit current will be less (~25A
from the datasheet).

Re the CAN bus, I can't help. We used to use RS485 comms on our rectifiers
(otherwise pretty similar). Probably there's a data sheet somewhere on the
web giving info on what's required for this or a similar product. If you
can find info on the commands for a similar but non-identical Huawei
rectifier it may assist as companies tend to retain the same protocol &
commands etc.. I don't think there's a Telecom standard for this but there
may be something these days. Or the commands may be encrypted in some way.
:-( in which case hardware adjustment may be the only option if you need to
change the voltage.

Once you register on the Huawei website there seems to be a lot of
datasheets available. It just may take a while to find what you need.

RP

Post by Tobias Gogolin
Hello estimated electronics wizards.
I am exploring to use a very cool 3kW Huawei R4850G2 rectifier as base for
a quick charger for my electric trike. Regrettably the published pdf about
its operation are not very in-depth and I assume it needs some CAN bus
hacking before it even releases its awesome power! I published in the
thread that helped me to find this device including a look inside the
really sophisticated design of this Access Power Rectifier here.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=86038
I appreciate any hints of how to proceed. I know the unit is alive and
boots up and even puts a small test voltage out, and the 3 status LED tell
that its alive, but it must want some configuration still. I already got a
MCP2515 CAN bus shield and Arduino ready, but I wouldn't know what to
expect or try next...
Thanks for your time!
--
„Jetzt war der Augenblick gekommen wo wir denken mussten. Der Augenblick wo
wir aufspringen und entscheiden mußten, wenn wir nicht allmählich so
vergiftet werden wollten, daß wir blind die Plätze einnahmen, die uns im
führerlosen Zug der Älteren angeboten wurden.“
Aus dem ersten Kapitel von 'Fatu Hiva - Zurück zur Natur' von Thor Heyerdahl
-------------------------------------
Tobias Gogolin
Tel. D1 (49) 151 6600 7066
Tel. D2 (49) 2672 906 9191
skype: moontogo
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

Tobias Gogolin

2018-11-12 22:31:20 UTC

Permalink

Thanks Richard!
If it is supposed to be a charger maybe it expects a voltage to begin with
to add its juice to? Similar to a cell phone battery protection circuit
that may need to be woken up by charging its internal battery beyond a
certain threshold if the battery has been sitting for too long, this supply
may not dare to power up what appears to be a dead battery? Could be an
option set within some internal config register though... I could test
giving it some voltage even before powering up...
by the way there is a pre-charge pin, which although not indicated must
belong to the negative terminal of the output DC because that negative PCB
contact is recessed as if for hot plugging, I doubt it has any significance
in regular operation tough?

The green LED is the one that remains on, but if I probe around and bridge
that ~1 Volt feeler voltage that Voltage goes zero and the red LED comes on.
I have put it in a case with a DPS5020 50V 20A digital power supply to
provide a side function while I develop my own charge pump and controller.
So there would be a capacitive load if the supply was to do a test run just
like that... I thought about trying Huawei directly, so registering is a
good idea for sure!
On my current fattest battery 3000W would be almost 2C, so its a exciting -
if I managed to direct that much power some day - the idea to try
considering 10-15 minutes stops, basically ending if any of the banks gets
even close to a save voltage limit...

Post by Richard Prosser
Hi Tobias,
It looks like a standard Telecom type battery charger. From the datasheet I
don't see anything indicating that it needs comms to startup but you may
need comms to adjust the voltage & current limit to your requirement. It's
probably preset to 53.5V or so with maximum current & power limit etc.
What Leds are showing? - a single green would appear to indicate normal
operation.
What happens with a resistive load (eg 4x12V automotive bulbs in series, a
220V incandecent lamp or a heater element)? With 3kW output capability it
should be able to provide 50A or so current. Note that the output
protection is foldback type so short circuit current will be less (~25A
from the datasheet).
Re the CAN bus, I can't help. We used to use RS485 comms on our rectifiers
(otherwise pretty similar). Probably there's a data sheet somewhere on the
web giving info on what's required for this or a similar product. If you
can find info on the commands for a similar but non-identical Huawei
rectifier it may assist as companies tend to retain the same protocol &
commands etc.. I don't think there's a Telecom standard for this but there
may be something these days. Or the commands may be encrypted in some way.
:-( in which case hardware adjustment may be the only option if you need to
change the voltage.
Once you register on the Huawei website there seems to be a lot of
datasheets available. It just may take a while to find what you need.
RP

Post by Tobias Gogolin
Hello estimated electronics wizards.
I am exploring to use a very cool 3kW Huawei R4850G2 rectifier as base

for

Post by Tobias Gogolin
a quick charger for my electric trike. Regrettably the published pdf

about

Post by Tobias Gogolin
its operation are not very in-depth and I assume it needs some CAN bus
hacking before it even releases its awesome power! I published in the
thread that helped me to find this device including a look inside the
really sophisticated design of this Access Power Rectifier here.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=86038
I appreciate any hints of how to proceed. I know the unit is alive and
boots up and even puts a small test voltage out, and the 3 status LED

tell

Post by Tobias Gogolin
that its alive, but it must want some configuration still. I already got

Post by Tobias Gogolin
MCP2515 CAN bus shield and Arduino ready, but I wouldn't know what to
expect or try next...
Thanks for your time!
--
„Jetzt war der Augenblick gekommen wo wir denken mussten. Der Augenblick

Post by Tobias Gogolin
wir aufspringen und entscheiden mußten, wenn wir nicht allmählich so
vergiftet werden wollten, daß wir blind die Plätze einnahmen, die uns im
führerlosen Zug der Älteren angeboten wurden.“
Aus dem ersten Kapitel von 'Fatu Hiva - Zurück zur Natur' von Thor Heyerdahl
-------------------------------------
Tobias Gogolin
Tel. D1 (49) 151 6600 7066
Tel. D2 (49) 2672 906 9191
skype: moontogo
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
„Jetzt war der Augenblick gekommen wo wir denken mussten. Der Augenblick wo
wir aufspringen und entscheiden mußten, wenn wir nicht allmählich so
vergiftet werden wollten, daß wir blind die Plätze einnahmen, die uns im
führerlosen Zug der Älteren angeboten wurden.“
Aus dem ersten Kapitel von 'Fatu Hiva - Zurück zur Natur' von Thor Heyerdahl
-------------------------------------

Tobias Gogolin
Tel. D1 (49) 151 6600 7066
Tel. D2 (49) 2672 906 9191
skype: moontogo

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/

Richard Prosser

2018-11-13 08:08:27 UTC

Permalink

Yes, it could be that it requires an output voltage before it starts as
part of the startup. If so, it can probably be disabled once you know the
correct commands (as you note).
The precharge is used so that it can be hot plugged into a '48V' bus. There
are likely to be output capacitors and without precharge the input current
surge will damage the contacts. The fact that the precharge is on the neg.
rail is another clue that it's a telecom charger - most telecom circuits
are positive earth to minimise corrosion damage.

i guess you know that fast charging virtually any sort of battery will
reduce its life.

RP

Post by Tobias Gogolin
Thanks Richard!
If it is supposed to be a charger maybe it expects a voltage to begin with
to add its juice to? Similar to a cell phone battery protection circuit
that may need to be woken up by charging its internal battery beyond a
certain threshold if the battery has been sitting for too long, this supply
may not dare to power up what appears to be a dead battery? Could be an
option set within some internal config register though... I could test
giving it some voltage even before powering up...
by the way there is a pre-charge pin, which although not indicated must
belong to the negative terminal of the output DC because that negative PCB
contact is recessed as if for hot plugging, I doubt it has any significance
in regular operation tough?
The green LED is the one that remains on, but if I probe around and bridge
that ~1 Volt feeler voltage that Voltage goes zero and the red LED comes on.
I have put it in a case with a DPS5020 50V 20A digital power supply to
provide a side function while I develop my own charge pump and controller.
So there would be a capacitive load if the supply was to do a test run just
like that... I thought about trying Huawei directly, so registering is a
good idea for sure!
On my current fattest battery 3000W would be almost 2C, so its a exciting -
if I managed to direct that much power some day - the idea to try
considering 10-15 minutes stops, basically ending if any of the banks gets
even close to a save voltage limit...

Post by Richard Prosser
Hi Tobias,
It looks like a standard Telecom type battery charger. From the

datasheet I

Post by Richard Prosser
don't see anything indicating that it needs comms to startup but you may
need comms to adjust the voltage & current limit to your requirement.

It's

Post by Richard Prosser
probably preset to 53.5V or so with maximum current & power limit etc.
What Leds are showing? - a single green would appear to indicate normal
operation.
What happens with a resistive load (eg 4x12V automotive bulbs in series,

Post by Richard Prosser
220V incandecent lamp or a heater element)? With 3kW output capability it
should be able to provide 50A or so current. Note that the output
protection is foldback type so short circuit current will be less (~25A
from the datasheet).
Re the CAN bus, I can't help. We used to use RS485 comms on our

rectifiers

Post by Richard Prosser
(otherwise pretty similar). Probably there's a data sheet somewhere on

the

Post by Richard Prosser
web giving info on what's required for this or a similar product. If you
can find info on the commands for a similar but non-identical Huawei
rectifier it may assist as companies tend to retain the same protocol &
commands etc.. I don't think there's a Telecom standard for this but

there

Post by Richard Prosser
may be something these days. Or the commands may be encrypted in some

way.

Post by Richard Prosser
:-( in which case hardware adjustment may be the only option if you need

Post by Richard Prosser
change the voltage.
Once you register on the Huawei website there seems to be a lot of
datasheets available. It just may take a while to find what you need.
RP

Post by Tobias Gogolin
Hello estimated electronics wizards.
I am exploring to use a very cool 3kW Huawei R4850G2 rectifier as base

for

Post by Tobias Gogolin
a quick charger for my electric trike. Regrettably the published pdf

about

tell

Post by Tobias Gogolin
that its alive, but it must want some configuration still. I already

got

Post by Richard Prosser
a

Augenblick

Post by Richard Prosser
wo

Post by Tobias Gogolin
wir aufspringen und entscheiden mußten, wenn wir nicht allmählich so
vergiftet werden wollten, daß wir blind die Plätze einnahmen, die uns

Post by Richard Prosser

Post by Tobias Gogolin
führerlosen Zug der Älteren angeboten wurden.“
Aus dem ersten Kapitel von 'Fatu Hiva - Zurück zur Natur' von Thor Heyerdahl
-------------------------------------
Tobias Gogolin
Tel. D1 (49) 151 6600 7066
Tel. D2 (49) 2672 906 9191
skype: moontogo
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
„Jetzt war der Augenblick gekommen wo wir denken mussten. Der Augenblick wo
wir aufspringen und entscheiden mußten, wenn wir nicht allmählich so
vergiftet werden wollten, daß wir blind die Plätze einnahmen, die uns im
führerlosen Zug der Älteren angeboten wurden.“
Aus dem ersten Kapitel von 'Fatu Hiva - Zurück zur Natur' von Thor Heyerdahl
-------------------------------------
Tobias Gogolin
Tel. D1 (49) 151 6600 7066
Tel. D2 (49) 2672 906 9191
skype: moontogo
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
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View/change your membership options at
http

Tobias Gogolin

2018-11-14 15:00:31 UTC

Permalink

Meanwhile esteemed Wizards (danke Russel...)
I did some tests, and while I got no power out yet I found a following
scheme:
If I power up with no prepared voltage on the output, just the green LED
comes on
If I then power up 48 or 53V the Orange LED starts flashing, and the Red
one comes on

If I power up with prepared 48V on the output, the green LED comes on and
the orange flashes
If I then remove the prepared input the output just goes down too and the
red LED comes on

If I power up with prepared 53 or 58V on the output, the green LED comes
alone the first few times (now the orange flashes
always too) If I then remove the prepared input the output just goes down
too and the red LED comes on

any voltage change while on is attested with the red coming on...

So I gather there is no other than having to protocol via CAN bus?

Post by Richard Prosser
Yes, it could be that it requires an output voltage before it starts as
part of the startup. If so, it can probably be disabled once you know the
correct commands (as you note).
The precharge is used so that it can be hot plugged into a '48V' bus. There
are likely to be output capacitors and without precharge the input current
surge will damage the contacts. The fact that the precharge is on the neg.
rail is another clue that it's a telecom charger - most telecom circuits
are positive earth to minimise corrosion damage.
i guess you know that fast charging virtually any sort of battery will
reduce its life.
RP

Post by Tobias Gogolin
Thanks Richard!
If it is supposed to be a charger maybe it expects a voltage to begin

with

Post by Tobias Gogolin
to add its juice to? Similar to a cell phone battery protection circuit
that may need to be woken up by charging its internal battery beyond a
certain threshold if the battery has been sitting for too long, this

supply

Post by Tobias Gogolin
may not dare to power up what appears to be a dead battery? Could be an
option set within some internal config register though... I could test
giving it some voltage even before powering up...
by the way there is a pre-charge pin, which although not indicated must
belong to the negative terminal of the output DC because that negative

PCB

Post by Tobias Gogolin
contact is recessed as if for hot plugging, I doubt it has any

significance

Post by Tobias Gogolin
in regular operation tough?
The green LED is the one that remains on, but if I probe around and

bridge

Post by Tobias Gogolin
that ~1 Volt feeler voltage that Voltage goes zero and the red LED comes on.
I have put it in a case with a DPS5020 50V 20A digital power supply to
provide a side function while I develop my own charge pump and

controller.

Post by Tobias Gogolin
So there would be a capacitive load if the supply was to do a test run

just

Post by Tobias Gogolin
like that... I thought about trying Huawei directly, so registering is a
good idea for sure!
On my current fattest battery 3000W would be almost 2C, so its a

exciting -

Post by Tobias Gogolin
if I managed to direct that much power some day - the idea to try
considering 10-15 minutes stops, basically ending if any of the banks

gets

Post by Tobias Gogolin
even close to a save voltage limit...

Post by Richard Prosser
Hi Tobias,
It looks like a standard Telecom type battery charger. From the

datasheet I

Post by Richard Prosser
don't see anything indicating that it needs comms to startup but you

may