Discussion:
[OT]:: Making a "quick, easy & cheap"* reflective finish.
RussellMc
2018-05-30 13:48:25 UTC
Permalink
I have acquired a number of parabolic "satellite dishes" dishes (6 or so
all up) which I wish to 'play' with as solar concentrators.
I'm interested in suggestions for reflective coating methods not on the
list below and for comments by people familiar with these methods.
"Spray chrome" seems attractive if it works "half well".

Aim is investigation of cooking, water heating and water sterilisation.
Purpose is evaluation of practicality for developing country use. IOF the
3.3m dish proves useful it could grow a solar tracker (fairly easy) and may
even be useful in personal applications.
When used with a counterflow heat exchanger the water sterilisation
capacity should be 5 to 10 times as much as water heating throughput at a
given temperature.

Intention is to gain practical knowledge - if anything practical results
from this construction methods may well be quite different.

Dish sizes are from about 300mm through about 1m dia in steel, 1.5m dia in
Al and a 3.3m dia Al mesh dish.
[Mesh dish proper is very light. Dish dismantles to 8 panels which can be
carried easily by one person wrt weight. Shape a bit annoying :-)].

I wish to coat the surfaces with an optically reflective layer so as to
provide concentrated solar energy at the focus.
Ease of coatings and not much cost are rated ahead of efficiency - but high
efficiency is a welcome bonus.

Flatness of surface and lack of 'bumps' not too too critical - these spread
the focus point but this need not be as tight as in RF applications.

The 3.3m dish is about 8 m^2 in area. In full sun at 50% efficiency would
give about 4 kW. Useful :-).

The mesh dish will need to be filled with a filler of some sort and sanded
to a smooth surface - not too hard (ha!)
The largest solid dish is Al and MAY sand to an adequate surface as is with
eg a clear spray on coat to reduce ongoing oxidation.

Possible options are:

- 1. Adhesive backed aluminised mylar foil./ Less available here than in US.

- 2. Non adhesive backed aluminised mylar foil - more available here.

- 3. Space blanket - similar to 2. but usually more wrinkled from folding
than desired.

- 4. Al cooking foil (non adhesive backed). Cheap, available, lower
reflectivity

- 5. Spray on "fake Chrome. Goodness tbd

- 6. "Real" chrome plate - commercial - even done with minimum effort cost
is highish.s

- 7. Real chrome plate DIY - doable but high effort.

-8. Other chrome imitators applied by eg tumbling. Dearish but cheaper than
chrome.

- 9. Al surface sanded and clear coated.

- 10. Front surface silver mirror using silver nitrate + clear coating.
(Cost may not be TOO high. Result superb if doable).

- 11. Small mirrors or broken mirror material stuck on surface. (Smallest
focus size is about the same as mirror size and mirrors not sitting exactly
at dish angle beneath them will further degrade focus area minimisation. )


Comments / ideas ???



Russell

* "quick, easy & cheap" - choose any three.
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Denny Esterline
2018-05-30 13:56:50 UTC
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May or may not be useful, but I seen at least application of using Mylar
space blanket with edge secured and partial vacuum on one side to create
parabolic reflector. Definitely cheap/light/simple, may not be rugged
enough for anything past experimentation.
Post by RussellMc
I have acquired a number of parabolic "satellite dishes" dishes (6 or so
all up) which I wish to 'play' with as solar concentrators.
I'm interested in suggestions for reflective coating methods not on the
list below and for comments by people familiar with these methods.
"Spray chrome" seems attractive if it works "half well".
Aim is investigation of cooking, water heating and water sterilisation.
Purpose is evaluation of practicality for developing country use. IOF the
3.3m dish proves useful it could grow a solar tracker (fairly easy) and may
even be useful in personal applications.
When used with a counterflow heat exchanger the water sterilisation
capacity should be 5 to 10 times as much as water heating throughput at a
given temperature.
Intention is to gain practical knowledge - if anything practical results
from this construction methods may well be quite different.
Dish sizes are from about 300mm through about 1m dia in steel, 1.5m dia in
Al and a 3.3m dia Al mesh dish.
[Mesh dish proper is very light. Dish dismantles to 8 panels which can be
carried easily by one person wrt weight. Shape a bit annoying :-)].
I wish to coat the surfaces with an optically reflective layer so as to
provide concentrated solar energy at the focus.
Ease of coatings and not much cost are rated ahead of efficiency - but high
efficiency is a welcome bonus.
Flatness of surface and lack of 'bumps' not too too critical - these spread
the focus point but this need not be as tight as in RF applications.
The 3.3m dish is about 8 m^2 in area. In full sun at 50% efficiency would
give about 4 kW. Useful :-).
The mesh dish will need to be filled with a filler of some sort and sanded
to a smooth surface - not too hard (ha!)
The largest solid dish is Al and MAY sand to an adequate surface as is with
eg a clear spray on coat to reduce ongoing oxidation.
- 1. Adhesive backed aluminised mylar foil./ Less available here than in US.
- 2. Non adhesive backed aluminised mylar foil - more available here.
- 3. Space blanket - similar to 2. but usually more wrinkled from folding
than desired.
- 4. Al cooking foil (non adhesive backed). Cheap, available, lower
reflectivity
- 5. Spray on "fake Chrome. Goodness tbd
- 6. "Real" chrome plate - commercial - even done with minimum effort cost
is highish.s
- 7. Real chrome plate DIY - doable but high effort.
-8. Other chrome imitators applied by eg tumbling. Dearish but cheaper than
chrome.
- 9. Al surface sanded and clear coated.
- 10. Front surface silver mirror using silver nitrate + clear coating.
(Cost may not be TOO high. Result superb if doable).
- 11. Small mirrors or broken mirror material stuck on surface. (Smallest
focus size is about the same as mirror size and mirrors not sitting exactly
at dish angle beneath them will further degrade focus area minimisation. )
Comments / ideas ???
Russell
* "quick, easy & cheap" - choose any three.
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Harrison Cooper
2018-05-30 14:43:09 UTC
Permalink
In the states, we have a show called Shark Tank. This was on sometime back...

https://www.oneearthdesigns.com/

Similar in concept to what your looking for?

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Denny Esterline
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 7:57 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [OT]:: Making a "quick, easy & cheap"* reflective finish.

May or may not be useful, but I seen at least application of using Mylar space blanket with edge secured and partial vacuum on one side to create parabolic reflector. Definitely cheap/light/simple, may not be rugged enough for anything past experimentation.
Post by RussellMc
I have acquired a number of parabolic "satellite dishes" dishes (6 or
so all up) which I wish to 'play' with as solar concentrators.
I'm interested in suggestions for reflective coating methods not on
the list below and for comments by people familiar with these methods.
"Spray chrome" seems attractive if it works "half well".
Aim is investigation of cooking, water heating and water sterilisation.
Purpose is evaluation of practicality for developing country use. IOF
the 3.3m dish proves useful it could grow a solar tracker (fairly
easy) and may even be useful in personal applications.
When used with a counterflow heat exchanger the water sterilisation
capacity should be 5 to 10 times as much as water heating throughput
at a given temperature.
Intention is to gain practical knowledge - if anything practical
results from this construction methods may well be quite different.
Dish sizes are from about 300mm through about 1m dia in steel, 1.5m
dia in Al and a 3.3m dia Al mesh dish.
[Mesh dish proper is very light. Dish dismantles to 8 panels which can
be carried easily by one person wrt weight. Shape a bit annoying :-)].
I wish to coat the surfaces with an optically reflective layer so as
to provide concentrated solar energy at the focus.
Ease of coatings and not much cost are rated ahead of efficiency - but
high efficiency is a welcome bonus.
Flatness of surface and lack of 'bumps' not too too critical - these
spread the focus point but this need not be as tight as in RF applications.
The 3.3m dish is about 8 m^2 in area. In full sun at 50% efficiency
would give about 4 kW. Useful :-).
The mesh dish will need to be filled with a filler of some sort and
sanded to a smooth surface - not too hard (ha!) The largest solid dish
is Al and MAY sand to an adequate surface as is with eg a clear spray
on coat to reduce ongoing oxidation.
- 1. Adhesive backed aluminised mylar foil./ Less available here than in US.
- 2. Non adhesive backed aluminised mylar foil - more available here.
- 3. Space blanket - similar to 2. but usually more wrinkled from
folding than desired.
- 4. Al cooking foil (non adhesive backed). Cheap, available, lower
reflectivity
- 5. Spray on "fake Chrome. Goodness tbd
- 6. "Real" chrome plate - commercial - even done with minimum effort
cost is highish.s
- 7. Real chrome plate DIY - doable but high effort.
-8. Other chrome imitators applied by eg tumbling. Dearish but cheaper
than chrome.
- 9. Al surface sanded and clear coated.
- 10. Front surface silver mirror using silver nitrate + clear coating.
(Cost may not be TOO high. Result superb if doable).
- 11. Small mirrors or broken mirror material stuck on surface.
(Smallest focus size is about the same as mirror size and mirrors not
sitting exactly at dish angle beneath them will further degrade focus
area minimisation. )
Comments / ideas ???
Russell
* "quick, easy & cheap" - choose any three.
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Adam Field
2018-05-30 15:47:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by RussellMc
Comments / ideas ???
Vinyl wraps intended for cars. No experience myself, this is just a demo I
found on youtube:

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AB, Pearce - UKRI STFC
2018-05-30 19:57:34 UTC
Permalink
I wish to coat the surfaces with an optically reflective layer so as to provide concentrated solar energy at the focus.
Ease of coatings and not much cost are rated ahead of efficiency - but high efficiency is a welcome bonus.
When I was a kid Dad painted our house roof with an aluminium pain. This was a bit like iridescent paint, in that it was a clear paint (I think) with very fine aluminium in it.

I am wondering if there is a spray can of similar stuff available. I am sure I have seen it somewhere, but cannot recall where, automotive touch-up paint maybe?
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William Westfield
2018-05-31 05:43:23 UTC
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- 4. Al cooking foil (non adhesive backed). Cheap, available, lower reflectivity
Are you sure about that "lower reflectivity” part? Is cooking foil different in different parts of the world? (in the US, you get one dull side and one very shiny side.) Ancient amateur “solar power” books used glued cooking foil almost exclusively.

thickness may matter. Some of the aluminized mylars are designed to be partially transparent.
cooking, water heating and water sterilisation.
You might want to consider copper, which is quite reflective in IR. Normally pretty expensive, but perhaps with surplus PCB material…
- 10. Front surface silver mirror using silver nitrate + clear coating.
Possible explosive residues; it would make me nervous in the quantities you’re talking about. Also, I think you need a really smooth surface (ie glass) to get a reflective layer.


https://www.photonics.com/a25501/Mirrors_Coating_Choice_Makes_a_Difference

BillW
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Isaac M. Bavaresco
2018-05-31 16:30:03 UTC
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This one caught my attention:
<https://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=62877>

What interesting devices could be created with it?

Cheers,

Isaac
Post by William Westfield
- 4. Al cooking foil (non adhesive backed). Cheap, available, lower reflectivity
Are you sure about that "lower reflectivity” part? Is cooking foil different in different parts of the world? (in the US, you get one dull side and one very shiny side.) Ancient amateur “solar power” books used glued cooking foil almost exclusively.
thickness may matter. Some of the aluminized mylars are designed to be partially transparent.
cooking, water heating and water sterilisation.
You might want to consider copper, which is quite reflective in IR. Normally pretty expensive, but perhaps with surplus PCB material…
- 10. Front surface silver mirror using silver nitrate + clear coating.
Possible explosive residues; it would make me nervous in the quantities you’re talking about. Also, I think you need a really smooth surface (ie glass) to get a reflective layer.
https://www.photonics.com/a25501/Mirrors_Coating_Choice_Makes_a_Difference
BillW
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John Gardner
2018-05-31 16:36:37 UTC
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...Possible explosive residues...

If it can go "BANG" its a plus, on RussellWorld... "8)

...
Post by Isaac M. Bavaresco
<https://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=62877>
What interesting devices could be created with it?
Cheers,
Isaac
Post by William Westfield
- 4. Al cooking foil (non adhesive backed). Cheap, available, lower reflectivity
Are you sure about that "lower reflectivity” part? Is cooking foil
different in different parts of the world? (in the US, you get one dull
side and one very shiny side.) Ancient amateur “solar power” books used
glued cooking foil almost exclusively.
thickness may matter. Some of the aluminized mylars are designed to be
partially transparent.
cooking, water heating and water sterilisation.
You might want to consider copper, which is quite reflective in IR.
Normally pretty expensive, but perhaps with surplus PCB material…
- 10. Front surface silver mirror using silver nitrate + clear coating.
Possible explosive residues; it would make me nervous in the quantities
you’re talking about. Also, I think you need a really smooth surface (ie
glass) to get a reflective layer.
https://www.photonics.com/a25501/Mirrors_Coating_Choice_Makes_a_Difference
BillW
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RussellMc
2018-06-01 09:51:09 UTC
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Post by John Gardner
...Possible explosive residues...
If it can go "BANG" its a plus, on RussellWorld... "8)
​I haven't had a solar reflector explode yet.
I did have one accidentally set an old armchair on fire.
Leave em alone and you never know what they will get up to.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qe1s1ye1032rtz9/
SolarChairburner%20DSC00798%6010600901%60_PC2.jpg?dl=0

Old comfortable armchair on back porch.
Shadowed local cell site made cellphone comms poor.
Pointing phone at cellsite a few km away with a dish antenna enhanced
signal greatly.
Sit on porch at night, place cellphone at dish focus point. locate dish
just so and hold conversations with friend afar off via free cellphone
calling plan.
Finish for night. TAKE CELLPHONE WITH ME. Go to bed.
In morning note very misty back porch. Go and look.
Ah. Smoke.
Whisps of smoke visible in middle of picture.

Hmmm - September 2010 - more recently than I recalled.

That was a rough wrapped Al foil version.

Russell
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