[OT] High performance lithium batteries for mobility scooters?

[James Cameron]

Possibly lithium battery venting kills a vehicle user.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-21/man-dies-in-mobility-scooter-fire-in-geraldton/10401782

Click the image in the article for a closer view of the pavement damage.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/appalling-tragedy-man-burnt-to-death-on-mobility-scooter-20181021-p50b1g.html

On the other hand, there’s enough power present from lead acid batteries to cause a fire risk.

[Sean Breheny]

Dear Lord, what an awful way to die.

The articles don't seem to identify the model of the scooter. I've never
seen a mobility scooter which used Li Ion batteries but a quick search
indicates that they do exist. One reason why many of them still use lead
acid batteries is because the primary advantage of Li Ion is energy density
versus weight but these scooters actually rely to some degree on the weight
of the battery to help keep the center of mass low.

Lead acid batteries can certainly cause fires (I've seen it) but they
aren't fuel for a fire. I am shocked if the plastic parts used on these
scooters are not flame retardant (either by additive or by thickness of
plastic). So a lead-acid battery fire on one of these scooters should be a
fairly self-limiting event if there isn't additional flammable material
nearby - it wouldn't seem sufficient to kill someone sitting on top of it.

We will need to wait for the autopsy report to see the cause of death. It
could have been a heart attack or stroke brought on by the extreme stress
of the situation. It could have been inhalation of fumes from the burning
material (seems hard to believe if you are outside but maybe).

Sean

Post by James Cameron
Possibly lithium battery venting kills a vehicle user.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-21/man-dies-in-mobility-scooter-fire-in-geraldton/10401782
Click the image in the article for a closer view of the pavement damage.
https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/appalling-tragedy-man-burnt-to-death-on-mobility-scooter-20181021-p50b1g.html
On the other hand, there’s enough power present from lead acid batteries
to cause a fire risk.
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[Clint Jay]

There are mobility scooters out there which have LiIon batteries, mostly
the more expensive ones which are 'luggable' and stowable in the boot/trunk
of a car, a frined of mine has one such scooter and recently needed to buy
a new battery pack, it was over £500

Post by Sean Breheny
Dear Lord, what an awful way to die.
The articles don't seem to identify the model of the scooter. I've never
seen a mobility scooter which used Li Ion batteries but a quick search
indicates that they do exist. One reason why many of them still use lead
acid batteries is because the primary advantage of Li Ion is energy density
versus weight but these scooters actually rely to some degree on the weight
of the battery to help keep the center of mass low.
Lead acid batteries can certainly cause fires (I've seen it) but they
aren't fuel for a fire. I am shocked if the plastic parts used on these
scooters are not flame retardant (either by additive or by thickness of
plastic). So a lead-acid battery fire on one of these scooters should be a
fairly self-limiting event if there isn't additional flammable material
nearby - it wouldn't seem sufficient to kill someone sitting on top of it.
We will need to wait for the autopsy report to see the cause of death. It
could have been a heart attack or stroke brought on by the extreme stress
of the situation. It could have been inhalation of fumes from the burning
material (seems hard to believe if you are outside but maybe).
Sean

Post by James Cameron
Possibly lithium battery venting kills a vehicle user.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-21/man-dies-in-mobility-scooter-fire-in-geraldton/10401782

Post by James Cameron
Click the image in the article for a closer view of the pavement damage.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/appalling-tragedy-man-burnt-to-death-on-mobility-scooter-20181021-p50b1g.html

Post by James Cameron
On the other hand, there’s enough power present from lead acid batteries
to cause a fire risk.
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 at 19:49, Sean Breheny <***@cornell.edu> wrote:
... I've never seen a mobility scooter which used Li Ion batteries but a
quick search

Post by Sean Breheny
indicates that they do exist.

I've seen images of them - including a flame shield (of suspect capability).

I was a little 'nonplussed' by

... members of the public, who heard the man crying out for help but were
unable to assist him because of the flames. ...

I'd hope that a fairly intense inferno would not prevent attempts to push a
machine over or some other action.

That said, I do appreciate that there really are sensible limits - I have
been in a house fire, standing as close to a doorway as pain would
unreasonably allow, looking into a room that looked akin to the inside of a
bonfire, and being told that "grandma is in there", and knowing that an
attempt at entry would mean certain death and that grandma was already very
dead indeed. [Apparent cause: smoking in bed :-( ].

Russell