[OT]:: Mosquito

[RussellMc]

Yet another Mosquito documentary.
A better than most look at how it came to be created, and why it was
allowed to be.

Made from materials not classified as crucial to the war effort.
Then fastest aircraft in the world (20 mph faster than the Spitfire).

[John Gardner]

Thanks. I don't get tired of some things.

Post by RussellMc
Yet another Mosquito documentary.
A better than most look at how it came to be created, and why it was
allowed to be.
Made from materials not classified as crucial to the war effort.
Then fastest aircraft in the world (20 mph faster than the Spitfire).
http://youtu.be/8vpzpOVJ6H8
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[David C Brown]

Thanks for that. Reminds me that once-upon-a-time my country could
actually make things.

In these days of carbon fibre and metal composites. It is easy to forget
that plywood was the first composite material and that aircraft and marine
grade ply were the wonder materials of their day. Combined with advanced
bonding methods it certainly revolutionised small boat building after WW2

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

Post by RussellMc
Yet another Mosquito documentary.
A better than most look at how it came to be created, and why it was
allowed to be.
Made from materials not classified as crucial to the war effort.
Then fastest aircraft in the world (20 mph faster than the Spitfire).
http://youtu.be/8vpzpOVJ6H8
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[John Ferrell]

Generally speaking, wood used in aviation does not have life limits 
like metal parts.

Post by David C Brown
Thanks for that. Reminds me that once-upon-a-time my country could
actually make things.
In these days of carbon fibre and metal composites. It is easy to forget
that plywood was the first composite material and that aircraft and marine
grade ply were the wonder materials of their day. Combined with advanced
bonding methods it certainly revolutionised small boat building after WW2
__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

Post by RussellMc
Yet another Mosquito documentary.
A better than most look at how it came to be created, and why it was
allowed to be.
Made from materials not classified as crucial to the war effort.
Then fastest aircraft in the world (20 mph faster than the Spitfire).
http://youtu.be/8vpzpOVJ6H8
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
John Ferrell W8CCW
Julian NC 27283
It is better to walk alone,
than with a crowd going the wrong direction.
--Diane Grant

[RussellMc]

Post by David C Brown
Thanks for that. Reminds me that once-upon-a-time my country could
actually make things.
Here on the leading edge of the fading empire we still make the occasional

Mosquito.

Technically they are "restored", and this is true to a variable extent,
but, if you can make a Mosquito out of a pile of decayed wood and metal
parts that have soaked for 50+ years in a Russian swamp, and they have,
then they could no doubt have "restored" it into anything they wished.

This man has undertaken or is completing 5 fuselage builds and two wing
assemblies.
Each fuselage takes about 1 year to build.

When they have *Mosquito fuselage jigs
<Loading Image...>
*you
know they are serious.

de Havilland Mosquito restorations in New Zealand
​
http://www.warbirdsonline.com.au/2014/02/11/de-havilland-mosquito-restorations-in-new-zealand/


Canadian wreck to (then) only flying Mosquito in world.

From *this <Loading Image...
to many of these - KA114
<https://www.google.co.nz/search?biw=1536&bih=855&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=moCKWvn5A4nl0gT-7oPgAQ&q=restored+mosquito+ardmore+%2Bka114&oq=restored+mosquito+ardmore+%2Bka114&gs_l=psy-ab.3...972403.975272.0.975747.7.7.0.0.0.0.217.1363.0j6j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.p87ZXDCmZTA>*


Many photos
<https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=restored+mosquito+ardmore&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CYbL6Mdwj-3kIjiiUxyGh0nkhywhH3xYHjkc1a6M9EWfdvkdZxydPg3SCmEbBaO2KOv5jwbE8PsgPiqD_1CSCF0mU1yoSCaJTHIaHSeSHEamjFCd2_1cLlKhIJLCEffFgeORwRLeJapz5m2sgqEgnVroz0RZ92-RF8oVodCEmNGCoSCR1nHJ0-DdIKEVOA-hykKDOnKhIJYRsFo7Yo6_1kRTdtyayTVHj8qEgmPBsTw-yA-KhFQvQeD2h464SoSCYP8JIIXSZTXEUeoGIBChxG7&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjuw62WvrHZAhUFkpQKHekPAgUQ9C8IHQ&biw=1536&bih=855&dpr=1.25>

​


Russell
​

[David C Brown]

A leading British aircraft "restorer" ids on record as saying "So long as
we have the name-plate we can restore it"

Reminiscent of Grandad's fifty year old yard brush - six new handles and
five new heads. But the joining nail is original.

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: [phone]
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*

Post by David C Brown

Post by David C Brown
Thanks for that. Reminds me that once-upon-a-time my country could
actually make things.
Here on the leading edge of the fading empire we still make the

occasional
Mosquito.
Technically they are "restored", and this is true to a variable extent,
but, if you can make a Mosquito out of a pile of decayed wood and metal
parts that have soaked for 50+ years in a Russian swamp, and they have,
then they could no doubt have "restored" it into anything they wished.
This man has undertaken or is completing 5 fuselage builds and two wing
assemblies.
Each fuselage takes about 1 year to build.
When they have *Mosquito fuselage jigs
<http://www.warbirdsonline.com.au/warbirds/wp-content/
uploads/2014/02/de-Havilland-Mosquito-fuselage-jigs.jpg>
*you
know they are serious.
de Havilland Mosquito restorations in New Zealand
​
http://www.warbirdsonline.com.au/2014/02/11/de-havilland-
mosquito-restorations-in-new-zealand/
Canadian wreck to (then) only flying Mosquito in world.
From *this <http://wpmedia.o.canada.com/2013/03/mosquito-born.jpg?w=640>
to many of these - KA114
<https://www.google.co.nz/search?biw=1536&bih=855&tbm=
isch&sa=1&ei=moCKWvn5A4nl0gT-7oPgAQ&q=restored+mosquito+
ardmore+%2Bka114&oq=restored+mosquito+ardmore+%2Bka114&gs_
l=psy-ab.3...972403.975272.0.975747.7.7.0.0.0.0.217.1363.
0j6j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.p87ZXDCmZTA>*
Many photos
<https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=restored+mosquito+
ardmore&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CYbL6Mdwj-3kIjiiUxyGh0nkhywhH3xYHjkc1a6M
9EWfdvkdZxydPg3SCmEbBaO2KOv5jwbE8PsgPiqD_1CSCF0mU1yoSCaJTHIaHSeSHEamjFCd2_
1cLlKhIJLCEffFgeORwRLeJapz5m2sgqEgnVroz0RZ92-RF8oVodCEmNGCoSCR1nHJ0-
DdIKEVOA-hykKDOnKhIJYRsFo7Yo6_1kRTdtyayTVHj8qEgmPBsTw-yA-
KhFQvQeD2h464SoSCYP8JIIXSZTXEUeoGIBChxG7&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=
0ahUKEwjuw62WvrHZAhUFkpQKHekPAgUQ9C8IHQ&biw=1536&bih=855&dpr=1.25>
​
Russell
​
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

Post by David C Brown
A leading British aircraft "restorer" ids on record as saying "So long as
we have the name-plate we can restore it"
Reminiscent of Grandad's fifty year old yard brush - six new handles and
five new heads. But the joining nail is original.
​I've been doing a little more reading on the subject.

They call that a "Data Plate" restoration - as opposed to ones that are,
perhaps, somewhat more real.

Getting CAA certification on wooden restorations is apparently "difficult".
"Identical" is not good enough - not totally unreasonably.
Stress calculations for all parts and more are notionally required.


Russell

[a***@stfc.ac.uk]

Post by RussellMc

Post by David C Brown
A leading British aircraft "restorer" ids on record as saying "So long
as we have the name-plate we can restore it"
Reminiscent of Grandad's fifty year old yard brush - six new handles
and five new heads. But the joining nail is original.
​I've been doing a little more reading on the subject.

They call that a "Data Plate" restoration - as opposed to ones that are,
perhaps, somewhat more real.
Getting CAA certification on wooden restorations is apparently "difficult".
"Identical" is not good enough - not totally unreasonably.
Stress calculations for all parts and more are notionally required.

Recently there was a news item about a bunch of original drawings for mosquitos being found.

Ah found the news item - about 6 months ago ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-40873628

[Denny Esterline]

Post by RussellMc
Technically they are "restored", and this is true to a variable extent,
but, if you can make a Mosquito out of a pile of decayed wood and metal
parts that have soaked for 50+ years in a Russian swamp, and they have,
then they could no doubt have "restored" it into anything they wished.

Any my philosophy professor said that the "ship of Theseus" was only a
"though experiment"....

[John Gardner]

Experience suggests that any wooden ship that's actually in the

water is a "ship of Theseus". OTOH, was just watching one of

Ballard's adventures, diving on "Sinop D", a ~500 A.D. wreck in

the Black Sea.

Presumably due to the anoxic environment the vessel is in remark-

able condition - You can see adze marks on the timbers...

...

Post by Denny Esterline

Post by RussellMc
Technically they are "restored", and this is true to a variable extent,
but, if you can make a Mosquito out of a pile of decayed wood and metal
parts that have soaked for 50+ years in a Russian swamp, and they have,
then they could no doubt have "restored" it into anything they wished.

Any my philosophy professor said that the "ship of Theseus" was only a
"though experiment"....
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Allen Mulvey]

We tend to think of air dried wood but water cured is much
better. When green wood is left submerged for a long time it
cures far better than air drying, few , if any, cracks or
checks develop. This allows much wider boards to be cut.

Even a wood kiln does not use air. It uses steam.

Of course, this is green wood, I'm not sure about wood that
has already been air dried. Water is not necessarily the
enemy of wood.

Here is something I got from a quick Google:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sinker-wood-20140713-sto
ry.html

This is more common than you might think. Apparently the
state of Oregon has outlawed the harvesting of underwater
timber.
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126319
923

Allen

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu
[mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of John Gardner
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 11:47 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [OT]:: Mosquito

Experience suggests that any wooden ship that's actually in
the

water is a "ship of Theseus". OTOH, was just watching
one of

Ballard's adventures, diving on "Sinop D", a ~500 A.D.
wreck in

the Black Sea.

Presumably due to the anoxic environment the vessel is in
remark-

able condition - You can see adze marks on the timbers...

...

Post by Denny Esterline

Post by RussellMc
Technically they are "restored", and this is true to a

variable extent,

Post by Denny Esterline

Post by RussellMc
but, if you can make a Mosquito out of a pile of decayed

wood and metal

Post by Denny Esterline

Post by RussellMc
parts that have soaked for 50+ years in a Russian swamp,

and they have,

Post by Denny Esterline

Post by RussellMc
then they could no doubt have "restored" it into anything

they wished.

Post by Denny Esterline
Any my philosophy professor said that the "ship of

Theseus" was only a

Post by Denny Esterline
"though experiment"....
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list

archive

Post by Denny Esterline
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list
archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[John Gardner]

Aquatic life forms are the primary agent of decay - Marine borers

like the teredo worm, for instance. Interestingly, at least according

to some who study the subject, iron & steel artifacts are also rapidly

destroyed by iron-eating bacteria in the deep oceans.

The wreck of the Titanic will be reduced to a rust pile in a few hundred

years, according to one analysis.

...

Post by Allen Mulvey
We tend to think of air dried wood but water cured is much
better. When green wood is left submerged for a long time it
cures far better than air drying, few , if any, cracks or
checks develop. This allows much wider boards to be cut.
Even a wood kiln does not use air. It uses steam.
Of course, this is green wood, I'm not sure about wood that
has already been air dried. Water is not necessarily the
enemy of wood.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sinker-wood-20140713-sto
ry.html
This is more common than you might think. Apparently the
state of Oregon has outlawed the harvesting of underwater
timber.
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126319
923
Allen
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 11:47 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [OT]:: Mosquito
Experience suggests that any wooden ship that's actually in
the
water is a "ship of Theseus". OTOH, was just watching
one of
Ballard's adventures, diving on "Sinop D", a ~500 A.D.
wreck in
the Black Sea.
Presumably due to the anoxic environment the vessel is in
remark-
able condition - You can see adze marks on the timbers...
...

Post by Denny Esterline

Post by RussellMc
Technically they are "restored", and this is true to a

variable extent,

Post by Denny Esterline

Post by RussellMc
but, if you can make a Mosquito out of a pile of decayed

wood and metal

Post by Denny Esterline

Post by RussellMc
parts that have soaked for 50+ years in a Russian swamp,

and they have,

Post by Denny Esterline

Post by RussellMc
then they could no doubt have "restored" it into anything

they wished.

Post by Denny Esterline
Any my philosophy professor said that the "ship of

Theseus" was only a

Post by Denny Esterline
"though experiment"....
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list

archive

Post by Denny Esterline
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list
archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

Post by John Gardner
Aquatic life forms are the primary agent of decay - Marine borers
like the teredo worm, for instance. Interestingly, at least according
to some who study the subject, iron & steel artifacts are also rapidly
destroyed by iron-eating bacteria in the deep oceans.
The wreck of the Titanic will be reduced to a rust pile in a few hundred
years, according to one analysis.

​You can't escape ​"life".
I've read that the mass of 'endoliths' - the lifeforms which exist within
the rocks of earth exceed that of all oceanic and above surface life.
(I could find no reference to relative amounts of life above/below surface
in a modest web search).

https://wiki2.org/en/Endolith+Brights



Russell

[John Gardner]

... You can't escape "life"...

The Black Sea appears to be a special case; low circulation en-

genders an anoxic layer of deep salty water under a shallow layer

of fresher, more oxygenated water. The interface between the

two layers lies at ~ 100-200 meters. In addition, local conditions

include high levels of hydrogen sulphide in the deep water, which

effectively inhibits many anaerobic life forms.

...

Post by RussellMc

Post by John Gardner
Aquatic life forms are the primary agent of decay - Marine borers
like the teredo worm, for instance. Interestingly, at least according
to some who study the subject, iron & steel artifacts are also rapidly
destroyed by iron-eating bacteria in the deep oceans.
The wreck of the Titanic will be reduced to a rust pile in a few hundred
years, according to one analysis.

​You can't escape ​"life".
I've read that the mass of 'endoliths' - the lifeforms which exist within
the rocks of earth exceed that of all oceanic and above surface life.
(I could find no reference to relative amounts of life above/below surface
in a modest web search).
https://wiki2.org/en/Endolith+Brights
Russell
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[RussellMc]

Post by John Gardner
... You can't escape "life"...
The Black Sea appears to be a special case; low circulation en-
genders an anoxic layer of deep salty water under a shallow layer
of fresher, more oxygenated water. The interface between the
two layers lies at ~ 100-200 meters. In addition, local conditions
include high levels of hydrogen sulphide in the deep water, which
effectively inhibits many anaerobic life forms.

​Sounds ideal for many endoliths :-)


R

[John Gardner]

...​Sounds ideal for many endoliths :-) ...

Which fortunately have yet to develop an appetite for marine

artifacts - At least in the Black Sea.

It's possible that sea-faring began in the Chalcolithic - The deep

waters of the Black Sea may harbor the evidence...

...

Post by RussellMc

Post by John Gardner
... You can't escape "life"...
The Black Sea appears to be a special case; low circulation en-
genders an anoxic layer of deep salty water under a shallow layer
of fresher, more oxygenated water. The interface between the
two layers lies at ~ 100-200 meters. In addition, local conditions
include high levels of hydrogen sulphide in the deep water, which
effectively inhibits many anaerobic life forms.

​Sounds ideal for many endoliths :-)
R
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist