Stepper control

[Van Horn, David]

I could use some advice on stepper control. I'm building a glass lathe with a pair of these motors:
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cnc-router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis/

I need some sort of controller that will let me drive both from a simple voltage input to control speed, and a second voltage input to vary the speed of one motor slightly either way.
Most of the time, I need them to go exactly in sync.
When the glass is molten, I can twist by leading or lagging one motor.

For this project, I'm looking for a module/system rather than a PIC or AVR approach, I just don't have time to design/build the hardware.

The load is not large, the chucks themselves are more mass than what they will be holding.

Power available is 110VAC.



--
David VanHorn
Lead Hardware Engineer

Backcountry Access, Inc.
2820 Wilderness Pl, Unit H
Boulder, CO 80301 USA
phone: [phone] x110
email: ***@backcountryaccess.com<mailto:***@backcountryaccess.com>

[Neil]

I don't know of a canned solution, but I can offer a simplish-solution...

First you will need a stepper motor driver for each unit. For tthat
4-wire stepper, you need a bipolar stepper driver. At least 3A (but
allow for more as there can be higher peaks). Gecko drives are popular,
but there are counterfeits out there, and they're over $100 each.
Instead, I really like IMS483 an IMS805 drives, which are generally $250
and up, but I find them on Ebay for $40-ish periodically. The IM483
will handle 3A RMS and 4A peak.
https://motion.schneider-electric.com/downloads/quickreference/QR_IM483_805.pdf

Next, you will need a power supply (preferably linear) which can drive
the motors. The motors don't specify the static voltage or coil
resistance, but I'm pretty sure you'd be able to use 36V or 48V w/no
issue. 48V is the max for the IM483 driver. You can contact the
manufacturer to find out the static voltage, and then rule of thumb is
to go no more than 20x or 25x that. The driver will regulate the
current, which is why you can go much higher on voltage.

Now, to control the drivers, you need (one) controller, for which I'd
recommend an Arduino running grbl, which is downloadable from github.
https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki/Connecting-Grbl

Setup one driver on say the X-axis outputs and the other driver on say
the Y-axis output. Now, you can send grbl G-code commands (from the
serial terminal/monitor). Going the same distance (straight line) X and
Y will give you coordinated speed. Going a different distance will give
you offset speed.
So for example G01 X10 Y10 F5 will give you both speeds the same, and
the F value is the speed.
G01 X10 Y10 F10 will do the same, but faster.
G01 X10 Y12 F5 will give you that twist.

The only other thing is that these commands go a fixed distance (so will
not rotate indefinitely). Due to distance/math limits, you should
probably zero the axes after each command is over.

Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Van Horn, David
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cnc-router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis/
I need some sort of controller that will let me drive both from a simple voltage input to control speed, and a second voltage input to vary the speed of one motor slightly either way.
Most of the time, I need them to go exactly in sync.
When the glass is molten, I can twist by leading or lagging one motor.
For this project, I'm looking for a module/system rather than a PIC or AVR approach, I just don't have time to design/build the hardware.
The load is not large, the chucks themselves are more mass than what they will be holding.
Power available is 110VAC.
--
David VanHorn
Lead Hardware Engineer
Backcountry Access, Inc.
2820 Wilderness Pl, Unit H
Boulder, CO 80301 USA
phone: [phone] x110

[Neil]

Alternately, if you want a potentiometer to control the twist (and
another for the speed), you can use an arduino to send pulses to the
drivers, but then there's some coding involved.

Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Neil
I don't know of a canned solution, but I can offer a simplish-solution...
First you will need a stepper motor driver for each unit. For tthat
4-wire stepper, you need a bipolar stepper driver. At least 3A (but
allow for more as there can be higher peaks). Gecko drives are popular,
but there are counterfeits out there, and they're over $100 each.
Instead, I really like IMS483 an IMS805 drives, which are generally $250
and up, but I find them on Ebay for $40-ish periodically. The IM483
will handle 3A RMS and 4A peak.
https://motion.schneider-electric.com/downloads/quickreference/QR_IM483_805.pdf
Next, you will need a power supply (preferably linear) which can drive
the motors. The motors don't specify the static voltage or coil
resistance, but I'm pretty sure you'd be able to use 36V or 48V w/no
issue. 48V is the max for the IM483 driver. You can contact the
manufacturer to find out the static voltage, and then rule of thumb is
to go no more than 20x or 25x that. The driver will regulate the
current, which is why you can go much higher on voltage.
Now, to control the drivers, you need (one) controller, for which I'd
recommend an Arduino running grbl, which is downloadable from github.
https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki/Connecting-Grbl
Setup one driver on say the X-axis outputs and the other driver on say
the Y-axis output. Now, you can send grbl G-code commands (from the
serial terminal/monitor). Going the same distance (straight line) X and
Y will give you coordinated speed. Going a different distance will give
you offset speed.
So for example G01 X10 Y10 F5 will give you both speeds the same, and
the F value is the speed.
G01 X10 Y10 F10 will do the same, but faster.
G01 X10 Y12 F5 will give you that twist.
The only other thing is that these commands go a fixed distance (so will
not rotate indefinitely). Due to distance/math limits, you should
probably zero the axes after each command is over.
Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Van Horn, David
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cnc-router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis/
I need some sort of controller that will let me drive both from a simple voltage input to control speed, and a second voltage input to vary the speed of one motor slightly either way.
Most of the time, I need them to go exactly in sync.
When the glass is molten, I can twist by leading or lagging one motor.
For this project, I'm looking for a module/system rather than a PIC or AVR approach, I just don't have time to design/build the hardware.
The load is not large, the chucks themselves are more mass than what they will be holding.
Power available is 110VAC.
--
David VanHorn
Lead Hardware Engineer
Backcountry Access, Inc.
2820 Wilderness Pl, Unit H
Boulder, CO 80301 USA
phone: [phone] x110

[Van Horn, David]

That may be the best solution at this point.

So a large module for each motor, a motor power supply, and an Arduino board, plus pots.

I don't know much about these large stepper control modules, but apparently they take on most of the work.


-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 10:15 AM
To: ***@mit.edu
Subject: Re: Stepper control

Alternately, if you want a potentiometer to control the twist (and another for the speed), you can use an arduino to send pulses to the drivers, but then there's some coding involved.

Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Neil
I don't know of a canned solution, but I can offer a simplish-solution...
First you will need a stepper motor driver for each unit. For tthat
4-wire stepper, you need a bipolar stepper driver. At least 3A (but
allow for more as there can be higher peaks). Gecko drives are
popular, but there are counterfeits out there, and they're over $100 each.
Instead, I really like IMS483 an IMS805 drives, which are generally
$250 and up, but I find them on Ebay for $40-ish periodically. The
IM483 will handle 3A RMS and 4A peak.
https://motion.schneider-electric.com/downloads/quickreference/QR_IM48
3_805.pdf
Next, you will need a power supply (preferably linear) which can drive
the motors. The motors don't specify the static voltage or coil
resistance, but I'm pretty sure you'd be able to use 36V or 48V w/no
issue. 48V is the max for the IM483 driver. You can contact the
manufacturer to find out the static voltage, and then rule of thumb is
to go no more than 20x or 25x that. The driver will regulate the
current, which is why you can go much higher on voltage.
Now, to control the drivers, you need (one) controller, for which I'd
recommend an Arduino running grbl, which is downloadable from github.
https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki/Connecting-Grbl
Setup one driver on say the X-axis outputs and the other driver on say
the Y-axis output. Now, you can send grbl G-code commands (from the
serial terminal/monitor). Going the same distance (straight line) X
and Y will give you coordinated speed. Going a different distance
will give you offset speed.
So for example G01 X10 Y10 F5 will give you both speeds the same, and
the F value is the speed.
G01 X10 Y10 F10 will do the same, but faster.
G01 X10 Y12 F5 will give you that twist.
The only other thing is that these commands go a fixed distance (so
will not rotate indefinitely). Due to distance/math limits, you
should probably zero the axes after each command is over.
Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Van Horn, David
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cn
c-router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis/
I need some sort of controller that will let me drive both from a simple voltage input to control speed, and a second voltage input to vary the speed of one motor slightly either way.
Most of the time, I need them to go exactly in sync.
When the glass is molten, I can twist by leading or lagging one motor.
For this project, I'm looking for a module/system rather than a PIC or AVR approach, I just don't have time to design/build the hardware.
The load is not large, the chucks themselves are more mass than what they will be holding.
Power available is 110VAC.
--
David VanHorn
Lead Hardware Engineer
Backcountry Access, Inc.
2820 Wilderness Pl, Unit H
Boulder, CO 80301 USA
phone: [phone] x110
ccess.com>

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[a***@stfc.ac.uk]

Does our Piclist Archive host James still sell stepper motor drive boards?

Post by Van Horn, David
-----Original Message-----
Of Van Horn, David
Sent: 06 December 2017 17:26
Subject: RE: Stepper control
That may be the best solution at this point.
So a large module for each motor, a motor power supply, and an Arduino board, plus pots.
I don't know much about these large stepper control modules, but
apparently they take on most of the work.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Stepper control
Alternately, if you want a potentiometer to control the twist (and another for
the speed), you can use an arduino to send pulses to the drivers, but then
there's some coding involved.
Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Neil
I don't know of a canned solution, but I can offer a simplish-solution...
First you will need a stepper motor driver for each unit. For tthat
4-wire stepper, you need a bipolar stepper driver. At least 3A (but
allow for more as there can be higher peaks). Gecko drives are
popular, but there are counterfeits out there, and they're over $100 each.
Instead, I really like IMS483 an IMS805 drives, which are generally
$250 and up, but I find them on Ebay for $40-ish periodically. The
IM483 will handle 3A RMS and 4A peak.
https://motion.schneider-

electric.com/downloads/quickreference/QR_IM48

Post by Neil
3_805.pdf
Next, you will need a power supply (preferably linear) which can drive
the motors. The motors don't specify the static voltage or coil
resistance, but I'm pretty sure you'd be able to use 36V or 48V w/no
issue. 48V is the max for the IM483 driver. You can contact the
manufacturer to find out the static voltage, and then rule of thumb is
to go no more than 20x or 25x that. The driver will regulate the
current, which is why you can go much higher on voltage.
Now, to control the drivers, you need (one) controller, for which I'd
recommend an Arduino running grbl, which is downloadable from github.
https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki/Connecting-Grbl
Setup one driver on say the X-axis outputs and the other driver on say
the Y-axis output. Now, you can send grbl G-code commands (from the
serial terminal/monitor). Going the same distance (straight line) X
and Y will give you coordinated speed. Going a different distance
will give you offset speed.
So for example G01 X10 Y10 F5 will give you both speeds the same, and
the F value is the speed.
G01 X10 Y10 F10 will do the same, but faster.
G01 X10 Y12 F5 will give you that twist.
The only other thing is that these commands go a fixed distance (so
will not rotate indefinitely). Due to distance/math limits, you
should probably zero the axes after each command is over.
Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Van Horn, David
I could use some advice on stepper control. I'm building a glass lathe with
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-

router/cn

Post by Neil

Post by Van Horn, David
c-router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis/
I need some sort of controller that will let me drive both from a simple

voltage input to control speed, and a second voltage input to vary the speed
of one motor slightly either way.

Post by Neil

Post by Van Horn, David
Most of the time, I need them to go exactly in sync.
When the glass is molten, I can twist by leading or lagging one motor.
For this project, I'm looking for a module/system rather than a PIC or AVR

approach, I just don't have time to design/build the hardware.

Post by Neil

Post by Van Horn, David
The load is not large, the chucks themselves are more mass than what

they will be holding.

Post by Neil

Post by Van Horn, David
Power available is 110VAC.
--
David VanHorn
Lead Hardware Engineer
Backcountry Access, Inc.
2820 Wilderness Pl, Unit H
Boulder, CO 80301 USA
phone: [phone] x110

ya

Post by Neil

Post by Van Horn, David
ccess.com>

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Van Horn, David]

I believe he does.
The lathe guy had a recommendation, but I may also use the Linisteppers to see how they compare.

I foresee a "LatheDuino" in my near future. :)



-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of ***@stfc.ac.uk
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 3:45 AM
To: ***@mit.edu
Subject: RE: Stepper control

Does our Piclist Archive host James still sell stepper motor drive boards?

Post by Van Horn, David
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Van Horn, David
Sent: 06 December 2017 17:26
Subject: RE: Stepper control
That may be the best solution at this point.
So a large module for each motor, a motor power supply, and an Arduino board, plus pots.
I don't know much about these large stepper control modules, but
apparently they take on most of the work.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Stepper control
Alternately, if you want a potentiometer to control the twist (and
another for the speed), you can use an arduino to send pulses to the
drivers, but then there's some coding involved.
Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Neil
I don't know of a canned solution, but I can offer a simplish-solution...
First you will need a stepper motor driver for each unit. For tthat
4-wire stepper, you need a bipolar stepper driver. At least 3A (but
allow for more as there can be higher peaks). Gecko drives are
popular, but there are counterfeits out there, and they're over $100 each.
Instead, I really like IMS483 an IMS805 drives, which are generally
$250 and up, but I find them on Ebay for $40-ish periodically. The
IM483 will handle 3A RMS and 4A peak.
https://motion.schneider-

electric.com/downloads/quickreference/QR_IM48

Post by Neil
3_805.pdf
Next, you will need a power supply (preferably linear) which can
drive the motors. The motors don't specify the static voltage or
coil resistance, but I'm pretty sure you'd be able to use 36V or 48V
w/no issue. 48V is the max for the IM483 driver. You can contact
the manufacturer to find out the static voltage, and then rule of
thumb is to go no more than 20x or 25x that. The driver will
regulate the current, which is why you can go much higher on voltage.
Now, to control the drivers, you need (one) controller, for which
I'd recommend an Arduino running grbl, which is downloadable from github.
https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki/Connecting-Grbl
Setup one driver on say the X-axis outputs and the other driver on
say the Y-axis output. Now, you can send grbl G-code commands (from
the serial terminal/monitor). Going the same distance (straight
line) X and Y will give you coordinated speed. Going a different
distance will give you offset speed.
So for example G01 X10 Y10 F5 will give you both speeds the same,
and the F value is the speed.
G01 X10 Y10 F10 will do the same, but faster.
G01 X10 Y12 F5 will give you that twist.
The only other thing is that these commands go a fixed distance (so
will not rotate indefinitely). Due to distance/math limits, you
should probably zero the axes after each command is over.
Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Van Horn, David
I could use some advice on stepper control. I'm building a glass
lathe with
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-

router/cn

Post by Neil

Post by Van Horn, David
c-router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis/
I need some sort of controller that will let me drive both from a simple

voltage input to control speed, and a second voltage input to vary the
speed of one motor slightly either way.

Post by Neil

Post by Van Horn, David
Most of the time, I need them to go exactly in sync.
When the glass is molten, I can twist by leading or lagging one motor.
For this project, I'm looking for a module/system rather than a PIC or AVR

approach, I just don't have time to design/build the hardware.

Post by Neil

Post by Van Horn, David
The load is not large, the chucks themselves are more mass than what

they will be holding.

Post by Neil

Post by Van Horn, David
Power available is 110VAC.
--
David VanHorn
Lead Hardware Engineer
Backcountry Access, Inc.
2820 Wilderness Pl, Unit H
Boulder, CO 80301 USA
phone: [phone] x110

ya

Post by Neil

Post by Van Horn, David
ccess.com>

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View/change your membership options at
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[Van Horn, David]

Close, but since it's a lathe, it may need to spin for a LONG time at some rate.
I don't think Gcode is my solution here.




-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 9:59 AM
To: ***@mit.edu
Subject: Re: Stepper control

I don't know of a canned solution, but I can offer a simplish-solution...

First you will need a stepper motor driver for each unit. For tthat 4-wire stepper, you need a bipolar stepper driver. At least 3A (but allow for more as there can be higher peaks). Gecko drives are popular, but there are counterfeits out there, and they're over $100 each.
Instead, I really like IMS483 an IMS805 drives, which are generally $250 and up, but I find them on Ebay for $40-ish periodically. The IM483 will handle 3A RMS and 4A peak.
https://motion.schneider-electric.com/downloads/quickreference/QR_IM483_805.pdf

Next, you will need a power supply (preferably linear) which can drive the motors. The motors don't specify the static voltage or coil resistance, but I'm pretty sure you'd be able to use 36V or 48V w/no issue. 48V is the max for the IM483 driver. You can contact the manufacturer to find out the static voltage, and then rule of thumb is to go no more than 20x or 25x that. The driver will regulate the current, which is why you can go much higher on voltage.

Now, to control the drivers, you need (one) controller, for which I'd recommend an Arduino running grbl, which is downloadable from github.
https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki/Connecting-Grbl

Setup one driver on say the X-axis outputs and the other driver on say the Y-axis output. Now, you can send grbl G-code commands (from the serial terminal/monitor). Going the same distance (straight line) X and Y will give you coordinated speed. Going a different distance will give you offset speed.
So for example G01 X10 Y10 F5 will give you both speeds the same, and the F value is the speed.
G01 X10 Y10 F10 will do the same, but faster.
G01 X10 Y12 F5 will give you that twist.

The only other thing is that these commands go a fixed distance (so will not rotate indefinitely). Due to distance/math limits, you should probably zero the axes after each command is over.

Cheers,
-Neil.

Post by Van Horn, David
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cnc
-router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis/
I need some sort of controller that will let me drive both from a simple voltage input to control speed, and a second voltage input to vary the speed of one motor slightly either way.
Most of the time, I need them to go exactly in sync.
When the glass is molten, I can twist by leading or lagging one motor.
For this project, I'm looking for a module/system rather than a PIC or AVR approach, I just don't have time to design/build the hardware.
The load is not large, the chucks themselves are more mass than what they will be holding.
Power available is 110VAC.
--
David VanHorn
Lead Hardware Engineer
Backcountry Access, Inc.
2820 Wilderness Pl, Unit H
Boulder, CO 80301 USA
phone: [phone] x110
cess.com>

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

[Denny Esterline]

There's a lot of options for driving steppers these days.
This one was in my email this morning and seems adequate for that motor
(I've not used it myself)
http://www.mpja.com/Stepper-Motor-Driver-3A-Max-CW230/productinfo/17451+MS

This, and most others I know of, are designed for step/direction inputs.
That could be as simple as a couple 555s, but I'd probably reach for an
Arduino or clone these days. Though that does get you back to software you
wanted to avoid. But it could be a 30-minute solution, read two pots on
analog pins, one controls frequency of one output, the other an offset to
the frequency on a second pin.


Also interesting is either RAMPS or GRBL. Very nearly out-of-the-box G-code
to stepper motor control. RAMPS is more focused on 3D printers, GRBL more
so on milling machines/laser cutters etc. Both have some common heritage,
but then you're writing G-code to control them which may or may not be
simpler to you.



On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 8:46 AM, Van Horn, David <

Post by Van Horn, David
I could use some advice on stepper control. I'm building a glass lathe
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cnc-
router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis/
I need some sort of controller that will let me drive both from a simple
voltage input to control speed, and a second voltage input to vary the
speed of one motor slightly either way.
Most of the time, I need them to go exactly in sync.
When the glass is molten, I can twist by leading or lagging one motor.
For this project, I'm looking for a module/system rather than a PIC or AVR
approach, I just don't have time to design/build the hardware.
The load is not large, the chucks themselves are more mass than what they will be holding.
Power available is 110VAC.
--
David VanHorn
Lead Hardware Engineer
Backcountry Access, Inc.
2820 Wilderness Pl, Unit H
Boulder, CO 80301 USA
phone: [phone] x110
backcountryaccess.com>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist