Discussion:
[TECH] Is it a Pi or a PDP 8?
CDB
2018-02-27 10:35:12 UTC
Permalink
An article from RS components about a Raspberry Pi kit that looks
similar too and operates like a PDP 8.

https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/my-raspberry-pi-thinks-its-a-pdp-8?cm_mmc=AU-EM-_-DSN_20180226-_-DM89749-_-HB_URL&cid=DM89749&bid=605967082
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RussellMc
2018-02-27 11:58:03 UTC
Permalink

Post by CDB
An article from RS components about a Raspberry Pi kit that looks
similar too and operates like a PDP 8.
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/my-raspberry-pi-
thinks-its-a-pdp-8?cm_mmc=AU-EM-_-DSN_20180226-_-DM89749-_-
HB_URL&cid=DM89749&bid=605967082
--
I was offered a PDP-12 for free 'some while ago' - probably in the 15-20
year range.
I declined the offer :-(. Probably a wise decision - but a sad one.

The 12 was a PDP 8 with an engineering (or Scientific?) add on that allowed
it to do analog I/O.

On it (in engineering school) I got to play my 1st ever computer game -
"Spacewars". A VERY basic game with 2 "ships" on an X-Y analog driven
monitor - each ship having a "LASER" and able to drop bombs which continued
in Newton's "body not subject to a force continues ..." mode until striking
something (could be you) or expiring. Screen wrap around made life
interesting.

The PDP 12 was "large" - you could walk inside at the rear.

There are many variants physically. What could have been mine was very
roughly like this

http://www.rcsri.org/collection/pdp-12-sl/
Loading Image...

or

http://www.rcsri.org/gallery/index.shtml

http://www.corestore.org/pdp-12.htm

Step inside

Loading Image...

MANY more here
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=pdp12&num=50&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjw16PfgsbZAhVX5rwKHRdQCHMQ_AUICygC&biw=1680&bih=919

An enthusiastic and substantial restoration -
http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/dec-pdp-12/dec-pdp-12-restoration

And another - http://dustyoldcomputers.com/pdp12/pdp12/index.html





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John J. McDonough
2018-02-27 16:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by RussellMc

Post by CDB
An article from RS components about a Raspberry Pi kit that looks
similar too and operates like a PDP 8.
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/my-raspberry-pi-
thinks-its-a-pdp-8?cm_mmc=AU-EM-_-DSN_20180226-_-DM89749-_-
HB_URL&cid=DM89749&bid=605967082
--
I was offered a PDP-12 for free 'some while ago' - probably in the 15-20
year range.
I declined the offer :-(. Probably a wise decision - but a sad one.
The 12 was a PDP 8 with an engineering (or Scientific?) add on that allowed
it to do analog I/O.
On it (in engineering school) I got to play my 1st ever computer game -
"Spacewars". A VERY basic game with 2 "ships" on an X-Y analog driven
monitor - each ship having a "LASER" and able to drop bombs which continued
in Newton's "body not subject to a force continues ..." mode until striking
something (could be you) or expiring. Screen wrap around made life
interesting.
The PDP 12 was "large" - you could walk inside at the rear.
There are many variants physically. What could have been mine was very
roughly like this
http://www.rcsri.org/collection/pdp-12-sl/
http://www.rcsri.org/collection/pdp-12-sl/pdp-12-super-1.jpg
or
http://www.rcsri.org/gallery/index.shtml
http://www.corestore.org/pdp-12.htm
Step inside
http://www.corestore.org/pdp12-2.jpg
MANY more here
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=pdp12&num=50&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjw16PfgsbZAhVX5rwKHRdQCHMQ_AUICygC&biw=1680&bih=919
An enthusiastic and substantial restoration -
http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/dec-pdp-12/dec-pdp-12-restoration
And another - http://dustyoldcomputers.com/pdp12/pdp12/index.html
You guys are evil. I can see where I am going to have to waste copious
amounts of time playing with this stuff. The PDP-8/i kit looks really
nice. I cloned the repository and see some of my old favorites in there - the PDP-11 and VAX which I was expecting, but also the HP2100, the IBM 1130, and even the venerable Burroughs B5500.

But I have to add my story to Russel's PDP-12 story.

Years ago I had an electronics specialty Explorer post, and we were
donated a PDP-4. We had the doors open and were poking around. I was
admiring the huge caps in the power supply, and my assistant advisor
said "John, come look at this" and she pointed to a rack of cards. "I
think that's the accumulator". Sure enough, there were 18 cards for the
accumulator, 18 cards for the program counter, 18 cards for the memory
register. All nice DEC cards, one card per bit. Even cooler, there was a
clock speed control on the front panel so you could slow things down
enough to follow the front panel lamps. So cool.

--McD
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Neil Cherry
2018-02-27 14:00:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
An article from RS components about a Raspberry Pi kit that looks
similar too and operates like a PDP 8.
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/my-raspberry-pi-thinks-its-a-pdp-8?cm_mmc=AU-EM-_-DSN_20180226-_-DM89749-_-HB_URL&cid=DM89749&bid=605967082
I've purchased and assembled the kit. neat project. I like it because
I don't need a real PDP-8 sitting in my home. I'm perfectly fine with
my smaller collection of vintage micros.

My understanding is that there is also a PDP-11 kit and an Altos 8800
kit using the Pi and Sim-H.
--
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http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog
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Harold Hallikainen
2018-02-27 17:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Interesting! The first community college course I taught was assembly
language programming on the PDP-8. We had a Teletype with paper tape
punch. You'd use the front panel switches to key in a loader. You'd then
run a tape through that would load another loader. Then run another tape
to load an editor. Type in the source code and output to tape. Load the
assembler from tape. Run the source tape through twice (two pass
assembler) to get an object tape. Load the object tape and debug using
toggle switches and lights on the front panel.

I still have the book I used for the class. I remember one of the
instructions was CIA for Complement and Increment Accumulator (two's
complement the accumulator).

One interesting thing about the PDP-8 was the way it handled subroutines.
It did not have a stack pointer. If you did a subroutine call to 0x1000,
the return address was stored in 0x1000 and execution would start at
0x1001 (actually, everything on the PDP-8 was octal instead of hex, but
you get the idea). The last instruction in the subroutine was an indirect
jump back to the beginning of the subroutine. The return address would be
fetched and loaded into the program counter. Execution continued.

At that time I also taught PDP-11 assembly language programming. I always
thought the instruction set of the PDP-11 was very clever. An instruction
consisted of the operation, the source register, the source mode, the
destination register, and the destination mode. Modes included direct,
indirect, predecrement, post decrement, preincrement, postincrement, etc.
The program counter and stack pointers were "just another register."
Putting something on the stack was just a write to the stack pointer
indirect post decrement. A literal used the program counter as the source
register with a post increment. After the instruction had loaded, the PC
was already pointing to the literal data, so it was read, then the post
increment to point to the next instruction.

Anyway, I thought it was all very clever. This was back in the 1980s. I
ended up teaching part time for 25 years, mostly hardware, but started
with PDP-8 assembly language programming.

Harold
Post by CDB
An article from RS components about a Raspberry Pi kit that looks
similar too and operates like a PDP 8.
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/my-raspberry-pi-thinks-its-a-pdp-8?cm_mmc=AU-EM-_-DSN_20180226-_-DM89749-_-HB_URL&cid=DM89749&bid=605967082
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This email is to be considered private if addressed to a named
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David C Brown
2018-02-27 19:40:36 UTC
Permalink
I must be the only seventy year old computer engineer who doesn't have fond
memories of using a PDPx.
I moved straight from simple lab work to the ATLAS and MU5 computers: the
two largest computers in the country at the time.

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: 01663 733236
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
Post by Harold Hallikainen
Interesting! The first community college course I taught was assembly
language programming on the PDP-8. We had a Teletype with paper tape
punch. You'd use the front panel switches to key in a loader. You'd then
run a tape through that would load another loader. Then run another tape
to load an editor. Type in the source code and output to tape. Load the
assembler from tape. Run the source tape through twice (two pass
assembler) to get an object tape. Load the object tape and debug using
toggle switches and lights on the front panel.
I still have the book I used for the class. I remember one of the
instructions was CIA for Complement and Increment Accumulator (two's
complement the accumulator).
One interesting thing about the PDP-8 was the way it handled subroutines.
It did not have a stack pointer. If you did a subroutine call to 0x1000,
the return address was stored in 0x1000 and execution would start at
0x1001 (actually, everything on the PDP-8 was octal instead of hex, but
you get the idea). The last instruction in the subroutine was an indirect
jump back to the beginning of the subroutine. The return address would be
fetched and loaded into the program counter. Execution continued.
At that time I also taught PDP-11 assembly language programming. I always
thought the instruction set of the PDP-11 was very clever. An instruction
consisted of the operation, the source register, the source mode, the
destination register, and the destination mode. Modes included direct,
indirect, predecrement, post decrement, preincrement, postincrement, etc.
The program counter and stack pointers were "just another register."
Putting something on the stack was just a write to the stack pointer
indirect post decrement. A literal used the program counter as the source
register with a post increment. After the instruction had loaded, the PC
was already pointing to the literal data, so it was read, then the post
increment to point to the next instruction.
Anyway, I thought it was all very clever. This was back in the 1980s. I
ended up teaching part time for 25 years, mostly hardware, but started
with PDP-8 assembly language programming.
Harold
Post by CDB
An article from RS components about a Raspberry Pi kit that looks
similar too and operates like a PDP 8.
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/my-raspberry-pi-
thinks-its-a-pdp-8?cm_mmc=AU-EM-_-DSN_20180226-_-DM89749-_-
HB_URL&cid=DM89749&bid=605967082
Post by CDB
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a***@stfc.ac.uk
2018-02-27 23:30:19 UTC
Permalink
They still have the shell of a Cray machine as a museum exhibit, along with various other bits and bobs. The Atlas building is still there, and still has computing hardware in it.

It has all moved on to become arrays of Linux machines with petabytes of disk, but it is a tier 1 storage for CERN now.



-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-***@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-***@mit.edu] On Behalf Of David C Brown
Sent: 27 February 2018 19:41
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <***@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [TECH] Is it a Pi or a PDP 8?

I must be the only seventy year old computer engineer who doesn't have fond memories of using a PDPx.
I moved straight from simple lab work to the ATLAS and MU5 computers: the two largest computers in the country at the time.

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak Phone: 01663 733236
Derbyshire eMail: ***@gmail.com
SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
Post by Harold Hallikainen
Interesting! The first community college course I taught was assembly
language programming on the PDP-8. We had a Teletype with paper tape
punch. You'd use the front panel switches to key in a loader. You'd
then run a tape through that would load another loader. Then run
another tape to load an editor. Type in the source code and output to
tape. Load the assembler from tape. Run the source tape through twice
(two pass
assembler) to get an object tape. Load the object tape and debug using
toggle switches and lights on the front panel.
I still have the book I used for the class. I remember one of the
instructions was CIA for Complement and Increment Accumulator (two's
complement the accumulator).
One interesting thing about the PDP-8 was the way it handled subroutines.
It did not have a stack pointer. If you did a subroutine call to
0x1000, the return address was stored in 0x1000 and execution would
start at
0x1001 (actually, everything on the PDP-8 was octal instead of hex,
but you get the idea). The last instruction in the subroutine was an
indirect jump back to the beginning of the subroutine. The return
address would be fetched and loaded into the program counter. Execution continued.
At that time I also taught PDP-11 assembly language programming. I
always thought the instruction set of the PDP-11 was very clever. An
instruction consisted of the operation, the source register, the
source mode, the destination register, and the destination mode. Modes
included direct, indirect, predecrement, post decrement, preincrement, postincrement, etc.
The program counter and stack pointers were "just another register."
Putting something on the stack was just a write to the stack pointer
indirect post decrement. A literal used the program counter as the
source register with a post increment. After the instruction had
loaded, the PC was already pointing to the literal data, so it was
read, then the post increment to point to the next instruction.
Anyway, I thought it was all very clever. This was back in the 1980s.
I ended up teaching part time for 25 years, mostly hardware, but
started with PDP-8 assembly language programming.
Harold
Post by CDB
An article from RS components about a Raspberry Pi kit that looks
similar too and operates like a PDP 8.
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/my-raspberry-pi-
thinks-its-a-pdp-8?cm_mmc=AU-EM-_-DSN_20180226-_-DM89749-_-
HB_URL&cid=DM89749&bid=605967082
Post by CDB
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